Last Minute Scotland Trip: East Lothian/Fife

[Mark Fedeli]

Mark, get new friends! 

Haha, I hear you! But I can't blame these guys for wanting as much spectacular drama as possible. I can swing it back toward East Lothian and Fife only, I just need to know which of the lower-cost, lesser-known courses will impress them most. I'll be happy as a pig in pajamas no matter where we play.

[Thomas Dai]

If you do go to the North East Royal Aberdeen is magnificent, much better than Murcar and more challenging although not as visually spectacular as Cruden Bay.


By the way, if you do venture to Cruden Bay don't just play the Champioship course, play the 9-hole St Olaf course as well. The St-O is wonderful in it's own right and the 6th and 8th may be the best two holes on the entire CB property.


Atb

[Brian Finn]

If you do go to the North East Royal Aberdeen is magnificent

Totally agree - exceeded my expectations

By the way, if you do venture to Cruden Bay don't just play the Championship course, play the 9-hole St Olaf course as well. The St-O is wonderful in it's own right

Agree with this also - I loved St. Olaf - but honestly, your buddies will likely think you are insane.  It's great linksland, has a number of really good holes, but nothing that appeals to your average American retail golfer (just being realistic).

[Thomas Dai]

Agree with this also - I loved St. Olaf - but honestly, your buddies will likely think you are insane.  It's great linksland, has a number of really good holes, but nothing that appeals to your average American retail golfer (just being realistic).

I know where your coming from Brian. My recipe would be to have them play the St Olaf (or some similar 9-hole links elsewhere) with only 5 or 6 clubs - it might teach them something about how to play links golf😊.


I took a very experienced scratch US player of the 'green and lush and hit it high, land it soft' and lots of shots with the lob wedge persona onto the St Olaf in this manner many years ago and watched his eyes open over the period and course management regime change over just a few holes.


Another suggestion - if in the Edinburgh/East Lothian area - Musselburgh Old, the 9-holer inside the racecourse, maybe even play with rented hickories. Now that would be a special experience for tourist golfers, something they're likely to remember and talk about forever - see - http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,59520.msg1401886.html#msg1401886


Atb

[Andy Shulman]

Option 1 - As Keith suggested, either get new friends or take charge and make the tough calls


Option 2 - Cancel the trip.  In just seven days, you can't play all the courses and do all the driving you described in Post #19 and not come home bruised, bewildered and broke, all without having experienced much of Scotland outside of a pro shop.


Option 3 - Skip Aberdeen/Cruden Bay, etc. (you said you don't want to do too much driving, right?), play Carnoustie (it's only 45 mins from St. Andrews) and then take a detour to play either Troon or Prestwick (not both) on either your last day or on the day you transition from St. Andrews/Fife to East Lothian.  The latter option adds only two hours of driving to your trip and either of those courses is an upgrade over any course in East Lothian other than North Berwick (which you want to play....with good reason) and Muirfield (where you're a longshot to gain access).


Good luck.  Sounds like you might need it!

[Josh Bills]

Mark,
[/size]
[/size] I played 36 on the day I landed in Edinburgh by playing Gullane No.2 and 3, as No. 1 had matches on it that day.  Fun courses, a few great holes and very friendly locals.  I spent the night at a local B&B and enjoyed the local pubs in N. Berwick.  They were great and found the low key nature of N. Berwick wonderful.  The next day I enjoyed 54 Holes in East Lothian and enjoyed every minute.  I started the morning at Glen Golf Club, not a true links, but gorgeous views and when I played it, the course was rolling fast and firm.  I headed next to N. Berwick, a course I wish I could have played multiple times as I loved it, but alas after my round they were playing matches.  So instead I spent a wonderful evening round strolling around at Kilspindie with GCA's Tim Gallant.  A truly wonderful day.   I loved all these courses and found that area one I would head back to gladly, not only for the great golf, but for the great people.   East Lothian is worth a visit.  I will post a few photos at some point to show you what a great spot it is.

[Bill_McBride]

If St. A is going to be busy then I would stick to Gullane/NB. Obviously North Berwick is worth playing a couple of times then there is Dunbar, the three courses at Gullane, I would get in touch with Muirfield to see if there is a chance of playing, Luffness New is excellent and I would add on Renaissance, Kilspindie and Musselburgh Old.


Jon

It's also easy to get into Edinburgh by train from either NB or Gullane for an evening of drinking and dining.  It's a great city. 

[Mark Fedeli]

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies. The group decided that Cruden Bay and Royal Aberdeen were absolute priorities. So, we now have a much better idea of what the trip will likely be:


WED: North Berwick
THU: Elie
FRI: St Andrews New
SAT: Kingsbarns
SUN: Cruden Bay
MON: Royal Aberdeen
TUE: Carnoustie


The remaining debate is regarding East Lothian:


1. Should we spend another day there and play Gullane instead of Elie?
2. Should we cut down on driving and save North Berwick for next time, playing something else in Fife instead?


Your thoughts are appreciated.

[Keith Phillips]

A question...you appear to be playing only 18 per day?  You'll find the cool weather conducive to 36/day for at least a couple days of your trip (provided you get early enough first tee times), so I'd add in a couple extra courses if I were you.  For a group that seems bent on hitting some of the highlights, your schedule appears too cautious...i.e spending the middle two days and only playing Elie and the New seems underwhelming...neither course will take more than four hours so what will you do with the rest of your day?  Any way you could spend the first night in North Berwick and play Gullane or Renaissance first thing on the Thursday, then drive up to Elie and play 18 there (or Crail).  You could easily combine Kingsbarns and Carnoustie into one day (I did it once and finished the day by driving to Turnberry...that made for a long day!) 


BTW one of my favorite Scottish golf travel websites is golfnook.com - some wonderful advice on there, and your playing partners might gain more insight into the special places you are trying to send them.


Finally, your final evening should be spent in Edinburgh, arguably Europe's most beautiful city...I'd try for an early tee time at Carnoustie and hustle down to Edinburgh for an evening you'll never forget.

[Sean_A]

Mark

Don't give up on North Berwick. 

I would suggest spend only one night in North Berwick...Wednesday. Stay in St Andrews Thurs, Fri & Sat. You also may want to consider staying in St Andrews on the last night because Carnoustie is a tip. Edinburgh is lovely, but you will have so little time to enjoy it that it isn't worth the hassle of coping with a city. 

In general you should try to get early times for Wed, Thur, Fri & Sat.  Guys then do golf or whatever in the afternoons (St Andrews is well worthan afternoon of exploring, the golf museum is good and there is the Himalayas).  It shouldn't be terribly difficult to get a game on a Links Trust course in the PMs if guys are so inclined.  Though you may want to explore playing NB twice on Wed and Elie twice on Thurs. 

You may want to consider switching Aberdeen and Cruden Bay around.  Play Aberdeen in the PM of the travel day on Sunday and 36 or 27 (with the 9 holer) at Cruden Bay on Monday.  Use Tues to travel to Carnoustie then move on to St Andrews to stay the night.

Ciao

[Rich Goodale]

Thank you everyone for your helpful replies. The group decided that Cruden Bay and Royal Aberdeen were absolute priorities. So, we now have a much better idea of what the trip will likely be:


WED: North Berwick
THU: Elie
FRI: St Andrews New
SAT: Kingsbarns
SUN: Cruden Bay
MON: Royal Aberdeen
TUE: Carnoustie


The remaining debate is regarding East Lothian:


1. Should we spend another day there and play Gullane instead of Elie?
2. Should we cut down on driving and save North Berwick for next time, playing something else in Fife instead?


Your thoughts are appreciated.

I would vote for 2. above.  North Berwick is an OK town but nothing compared to St. Andrews.  East Lothian can wait for our next gtrip (but don't do it unless you can get a time at Muirfield).  I'd substitute either the Eden or Trump's place for NB.


And, if you want to visit a distillery, I would highly recommend http://www.kingsbarnsdistillery.com/.

[Jon Wiggett]

I not so sure Rich. If they cannot play TOC then they will need to revisit St. A though this is no bad thing. Agree with you about Muirfield though if they can get on there then I would suggest Esat Lothian this time round.


Jon

[Mark Fedeli]

Thanks for the tip on the distillery, Rich. It'll be good to have one close to St. Andrews.

Keith, looks like we are adding some rounds. One of our guys is now only coming Saturday to Tuesday and wants as much golf as possible, so the latest is:

WED: North Berwick
THU: Elie
FRI: St. Andrews New
SAT: Kingsbarns
SUN: Panmure & Cruden Bay
MON: Murcar & Royal Aberdeen
TUE: Carnoustie

Good advice, Sean. The Saturday through Tuesday section is all based on actual tee times that are available to me so that can't change much. Wednesday night we'll stay in North Berwick. Thu, Fri and Sat in St. Andrews. Sun and Mon in Aberdeen. For Tuesday, we want to stay somewhere closer to the airport since we have a 9:20am flight back to NYC.

Wednesday through Friday is still totally flexible. I really want to play North Berwick, but it feels like an odd detour for just 18 holes. If there was a clear must-play in Fife to replace NB then I would do it. Or if Gullane was so much better than Elie then we would spend more time in East Lothian. Muirfield is out, and Ren Club would be fantastic but may be one luxury too many at 250 GBP for just one round. Maybe I'll write them just to see what's available.

[Charles Lund]

When I was in St. Andrews, Kingsbarns had a replay within seven days for half off.  If you skipped North Berwick, you could add a second round at Kingsbarns or play a lesser known course around St. Andrews.  That would lessen driving demands.

You didn't mention if you were flying in to Edinburgh or Glasgow.  The train from Edinburgh to Cupar, near St. Andrews takes about an hour.  Cupar is about four miles from St. Andrews.  I am not sure about the train route from Glasgow. 

At the train station,Enterprise had a car rental outlet there if you would consider a train over to the St. Andrews area.  I schlepped my luggage on trains for part of one Scotland trip and it was not unmanageable. 

You could also hire a shuttle from Glasgow Airport and bite the bullet on cost and settle in to St. Andrews.

The reason I mention this has to do with my own travel preferences.  Unless I know where I am going and the route, I try to avoid getting off on overnight flight, picking up a rental car, and heading out on a drive in a different country.  You could even wait a couple of days while you are in St. Andrews and pick up the car later.  Three taxis to golf courses split three ways would not cost that much and you would avoid the hassle of parking in St. Andrews.

Train would be a good way for your friend to hook up for the Saturday arrival.

Charles Lund

[Charles Lund]

I looked at train information.

There are trains from Glasgow Queen St. Station to Dundee which are relatively fast, like about an hour and 20 minutes.

I was looking into a possible side trip for myself next summer on the way to or from Ireland.   I have flight into Glasgow. 

Train looks like a realistic option to get away from Glasgow and head over to St. Andrews or up to Aberdeen.  Enterprise is located in Dundee and Cupar.  Think they will bring a car to St. Andrews for you.

Glad you posted about your trip.  It got me doing more research for mine.

Feel free to contact me if you wnat ScotRail or National Rail information.

Charles Lund

[Brent Carlson]

My recommendations of the courses being discussed in order - and I realize you may not be able to play them all:


1. Dornoch
2. Muirfield
3. TOC
4. N. Berwick
5. Cruden Bay
6. Carnoustie
7. Kingsbarns
8. Elie

[Andy Shulman]

If there's a course that's worth a 2-hour driving detour, it's North Berwick.  It's one of the most unique golfing experiences you'll ever have.  You, the trip leader, want to do it and, by putting it at the start of the trip, you're only adding about two hours to your total travel (compared to the four-hour round trip required for a day trip from St. Andrews to North Berwick).  For those reasons and others, I'd keep it on the agenda.  There aren't any must-play courses in Fife that you're not already playing....other than TOC.  Crail and/or the Eden Course are both worth playing and, as Keith pointed out, can be added for those who are up for an additional 36-hole day.


Have fun!

[Mark Pearce]

There is a substantial difference in quality between Gullane and Elie.  Elie is much, much better than Gullane.  Don't even think about giving up a round at Elie for one at Gullane.

[Bill_McBride]

There is a substantial difference in quality between Gullane and Elie.  Elie is much, much better than Gullane.  Don't even think about giving up a round at Elie for one at Gullane.

Agreed, my third favorite course in Scotland.

[Keith Phillips]

I've never played Elie, but will add it to a future Fife trip based on the two most recent comments.  Having said that, I'm flabbergasted that Elie would be considered 'much, much better' than Gullane.  While I understand the limitations of 'ratings', isn't #1 rated substantially higher than Elie in every credible rating?  Even #2 is rated ahead of Elie in the 'top100golfcourses' composite ranking, as are Fife's Lundin and Leven (which I also haven't played).  I have played Crail several times and love them, and have no axe to grind in Gullane's favor, but just feel the passion in favor of Elie may be excessive?

[Brent Carlson]

I've never played Elie, but will add it to a future Fife trip based on the two most recent comments.  Having said that, I'm flabbergasted that Elie would be considered 'much, much better' than Gullane.  While I understand the limitations of 'ratings', isn't #1 rated substantially higher than Elie in every credible rating?  Even #2 is rated ahead of Elie in the 'top100golfcourses' composite ranking, as are Fife's Lundin and Leven (which I also haven't played).  I have played Crail several times and love them, and have no axe to grind in Gullane's favor, but just feel the passion in favor of Elie may be excessive?

+1

[Charles Lund]

Quote

"We don't want to do a ton of driving—we all plan to come back again. I'm focusing this time mainly on East Lothian and Fife. We'll likely stay in North Berwick and St. Andrews.

We're definitely looking to play North Berwick and Kingsbarns, with a possible side trip to Cruden Bay. The Old Course ballot will be closed every possible day we'd be there due to tournaments, so that's probably out. And the New looks pretty booked up as well."

I have been following this thread and think your addition of Cruden Bay, Royal Aberdeen, Murcar, and Carnoustie are very good additions. 

They compiicate the logistics in some ways but make up for some of the constraints on options for golf around St. Andrews.

Personally, I would want two weeks for a
 three destination trip that would include East Lothian, St. Andrews, and Aberdeen as bases.  On my first Scotland trip, I spent four weeks (East Lothian, St. Andrews, Aberdeen, Dornoch, Machrihanish, and Prestwick, with ten nights in St. Andrews, and five nights in Prestwick).

I'd say go back and read your initial post and see if you are operating from the same perspective.

Sometimes, less is more.  You can always do a trip next year and include other destinations. 

Allan Ferguson's Golf in Scotland covers some logistical issues for golf trips in Scotland.

There was a thread on an epic trip to Ireland which bit off a lot in a one week trip.  Some comments and feedback also relate to self directed golf trips in Scotland.

If you are on the East Coast, you can easily go again. It is easier to get to than Bandon.

Charles Lund

[Jon Wiggett]

Whilst Elie is a super golfing experience it certainly is not as good as No.1 at Gullane and add in Muirfield, No.2 &3, Luffness New, Kilspindie, NB, Renaissance then East Lothian is the equal to Fife in my book except for TOC which is not on offer this time. In the end though I think you are best picking a small region such as Fife and staying there for the week. I am not sure all the driving about gives you the time to really get the off course ambiance. Also, play some of the lesser courses. The tick off the big names tourists never really get to experience authentic Scottish golf.


Jon

[Mark Pearce]

In my opinion (and that's all it is) Gullane 1 is amongst the most over-rated courses in the UK.  Spectacular views, yes.  Priced like a top course, yes.  But real quality holes?  One or two.  Elie, on the other hand, has perhaps a dozen holes you'll remember for a long time.  Is it long? No.  Is it a "championship" course?  No.  Does it offer more exciting, enjoyable shots than Gullane 1?  Yes, by a substantial distance.  Does it have a more enjoyable, challenging set of greens?  Yes, by an even larger margin.

[Mark Fedeli]

Fascinating debate about Elie vs Gullane. I've read dozens of threads about these courses, and while Elie seems fairly universally beloved, Gullane elicits some extremely dramatic differences of opinions. Instead of one being better than the other, what would you say are their major differences?


Charles, you're right, I did want to keep this a two-region trip, so I am considering saving North Berwick for next time, when I can properly give all of East Lothian its due, instead of a quick drive-by 18. The side-trip to Aberdeen is ambitious, but it would come after 4 days and nights in St. Andrews playing no more than 18 per day, so I think it sets up nicely as a big finale. It would pain me to drop NB, but we can't play them all, and we'll certainly have our fill of unique experiences at the other courses.