Last Minute Scotland Trip: East Lothian/Fife

[Mark Fedeli]

Gents,

My group of 4 guys has just decided to go to Scotland for 7 days in mid-September.

None of us have been there before, and I'm tasked with planning every inch of the trip. I've done my research, but a bit of advice from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

We don't want to do a ton of driving—we all plan to come back again. I'm focusing this time mainly on East Lothian and Fife. We'll likely stay in North Berwick and St. Andrews.

We're definitely looking to play North Berwick and Kingsbarns, with a possible side trip to Cruden Bay. The Old Course ballot will be closed every possible day we'd be there due to tournaments, so that's probably out. And the New looks pretty booked up as well.

A couple questions:

1.) The other guys have only a vague interest in architecture and would be very excited to only play the big names. That's not my priority at all, and thankfully, the decision is mine to make. Of the courses listed below, which do you think will most excite these decidedly non-architecture geeks:

Gullane 1/2/3
Dunbar
Elie
Leven
Lundin
Crail Balcomie
Jubilee
Eden
Luffness
Montrose

Anything I'm missing in the above list?

2.) Is Carnoustie worth playing this time? They'll be excited because they've heard of it, but based on everything I've read, I imagine they may wind up wondering what all the fuss was about.

3.) I'd love to play Cruden Bay, but considering all the options above, and considering that we want to keep the driving to a minimum, should we make the trip or save it for next time? And if we do go up, is Murcar worth checking out? (Trump and Royal Aberdeen are not in the cards).

Anything else you think I should know? Thanks in advance for all your help!

[Steve Salmen]

First advice is if you want to play TOC, find out the dates of the R&A Autumn meetings so you don't have a conflict. They meet in Sep I believe.

[Mark Fedeli]

First advice is if you want to play TOC, find out the dates of the R&A Autumn meetings so you don't have a conflict. They meet in Sep I believe.

Yup, TOC is off the table. Ballot is closed due to events. We'll play it next time.

[Sean_A]

If you have a week plan on North Berwick for 2 days. 


Your boys will appreciate Kingsbarns...especially if TOC and presumably Muirfield are off the table.  Likely the same story for Carnoustie..its not that far from St Andrews.  If in Carnoustie consider playing the Burnside course.


I would make space for Elie and Gleneagles Kings...don't listen to folks who go on about only playing links...Gleneagles is not like what you play at home...I guarantee it. 


That is seven courses...if you need one more course on the final travel day consider Eden or Lundin because they are fairly quick games and also offer some excellent holes.   


Ciao

[Greg Gilson]

The only 1 I would add for consideration to Sean's list is Panmure (right beside Carnoustie). If you can get the tee times to line up its a great 36 hole day with 45 minute each way commute from your SA base.

[Keith Phillips]

Kingsbarns and North Berwick are great choices - in Fife I'd consider a full day playing Crail's two courses...wonderful golf and scenery very close to St. Andrews...Carnoustie is likely worth a day trip...a very tough golf course but should be on all bucket lists...many good choices in East Lothian, including all 3 Gullane courses, and Luffness New if you can get on...always worth a call to the Renaissance Club, who were very hospitable when I visited a few years back.

[Jonathan Mallard]

You should probably figure 2.5 hours from St. Andrews to Cruden Bay if you want to make the trek.


Cruden Bay is worth playing. Twice.


Murcar is interesting. If you're committed to heading that way, I'd check it out.

[David_Tepper]

Mark -

Definitely play Panmure.
 
Save Cruden Bay for a trip when you spend time in the Northeast. Combine it with Royal Aberdeen, Murcar, Fraserburgh, Peterhead, Duff House Royal & Moray Old.

That's a pretty good week of golf!

DT

[Andy Shulman]

Carnoustie is a truly great golf course, is not boring, is MUCH closer to your base in St. Andrews than Cruden Bay and definitely meets your group's desire for a big name course.  After all, what avid golfer doesn't remember Jean Van de Velde standing in the Barry Burn with the Open on the line and his pants legs rolled up?  I agree with Sean's recommendation to consider Gleneagles Kings.  It's a big name in my book and the resort hosted the 2014 Ryder Cup.

You could do a lot worse than a Scotland sampler consisting of North Berwick, Kingsbarns (one of the courses that hosts the Alfred Dunhill Links), Crail Balcomie, Gleneagles Kings and Carnoustie, with others thrown in as your schedule permits.  That gives you several big names, courses that'll appeal to all levels of golfers and a modest amount of travel.

[Jon Wiggett]

If St. A is going to be busy then I would stick to Gullane/NB. Obviously North Berwick is worth playing a couple of times then there is Dunbar, the three courses at Gullane, I would get in touch with Muirfield to see if there is a chance of playing, Luffness New is excellent and I would add on Renaissance, Kilspindie and Musselburgh Old.


Jon

[Thomas Dai]

Himalayas putting green at St Andrews!
Atb

[David McIntosh]

Mark,

You seem to have most of the main East Lothian and Fife courses covered off in your list. Both have already been mentioned previously but the only others I'd add would be Panmure and, if you can get a time, Muirfield.

Muirfield visitor days are Tuesday and Thursday but if you're staying in the North Berwick area you'll have the ability to be quite flexible. I'd recommend checking their website as they have an availability calendar which will let you know if it will be a possibility during your week (assuming you haven't already done so).

I played Panmure for the first time a few weekends ago and was impressed by the course. The clubhouse is also worth a look around to see the Hogan lounge and memorabilia.

Cruden Bay, Murcar etc. would be a 2 hours plus drive from St Andrews and whilst Cruden Bay would be worth the trip, (Murcar would be a decent add on if you're already in the area) if you're looking to keep your time on the roads to a minimum then it would be best to save CB for next time as there are more than enough high quality and interesting courses in the East Lothian/Fife/Angus area you'll already be covering. Plus, you can include Royal Aberdeen on your itinerary on your next trip, which shouldn't be missed when in the North East.

David

[Andy Shulman]

+1 on the Himalayas.  And, the Eden Course is a fun option if the Old and New are booked.  It features a pair of outstanding criss-crossing par-3s (#5 and #8) and the 2nd on the Eden runs alongside the 12th on TOC.

[Rich Goodale]

Carnoustie (championship course) should be #1 on your list.  IMO it is the best golf course in the UK (technicially), and this was confirmed to me yesterday by a guy who told me that his father, who was was a Ryder Cup player, thought it was the best course he had had ever played.  After that, Panmure, and after that Monifieth and then Burnside and then Eden and the New .  After those two, whatever.......


That being said, stay in St. Andrews.  Town-wise Carnoustie is a dump and will always be so.  As a town, St. Andrews is world class.

[Drew Groeger]

A brief thread hijack here, my apologies, but I was also planning on a Scotland trip at the end of September to play TOC (among others). But its got the R&A Autumn Meeting Medal Sep 19-23 and then the Dunhill Links are from Oct 3-10. So is TOC open for public play that week between? As a single, would it be worth risking the trip to try and get a round or two in that week? Also, the online booking for the other St. Andrews courses that week seems very scarce. Are they all really that booked up or do they hold some times back? Just looking for some local knowledge.

[Mark Fedeli]

Thanks everyone for all your replies. It was very helpful.


It looks like we're going to do 4 days in St. Andrews with a day trip to North Berwick. For the remaining 3 days, the consensus is that we'll head up to the Northeast and try for Cruden Bay, Murcar, Fraserburgh, or Royal Aberdeen, with Carnoustie and maybe Panmure on the way back. Then in St. Andrews we'll do Kingsbarns, Elie, Eden, and possibly Gleneagles if people are tiring of the links courses.


Of course, we could always swap out the Northeast for Ayrshire and do Prestwick, Turnberry, Troon, and Western Gailes. What does everyone think?

[Greg Gilson]

Mark, in your opening post & request for suggestions you stated, wisely, " We don't want to do a ton of driving—we all plan to come back again". You therefore seemed to know to avoid the first rookie mistake which is, assuming you will return to Scotland, do not hare around trying to do everything in 7 days.

Your original plan of 4/3 split between St Andrews & East Lothian was sound (I would have gone 7/0 for St Andrews if you were there at a less congested time). You can (should) do Carnoustie & Panmure out of St Andrews as part of the 4 days there. Then do your 3 in East Lothian or Ayrshire (flip of the coin for me). That leaves you to do the Highlands & Aberdeenshire on your next trip.

Its hardly worth saying that Scotland is a mystical golf destination and you cannot really fail to have a great time. Part of the experience is sitting in the pubs, wandering down the streets & soaking up the spirit of the place. You received lots of helpful input and I just hope you put it to good use and don't default to zig zagging around the place like so many before you.

Hope this helps.

[Ian Galbraith]

Mark, What Greg says is right, there is more than enough wonderful things to do and courses to play around either St Andrews or Aberdeen/NE to spend a week in each. If you're determined to do both at least drop the long day trip to North Berwick off the itinerary - and I say that as a North Berwick member. It is a two hour drive each way from St Andrews to North Berwick and that's assuming you miss the Edinburgh rush hour traffic both ways. Save the delights of the West Links for another trip when you can savour the joys of East Lothian, which are many.

Ian

PS This is definitely a case where less is more. 

[James Brown]

Just me, but it seems a bit silly to do a trip to St. Andrews when TOC is not available.  If you are going to do more trips to Scotland, I would save it for next time and instead organize a trip around Dornoch or the west coast or even Ireland.  I would think staying in St. Andrews and not being able to play the TOc would be pure torture. 

[Mark Fedeli]

Thanks, guys. Great questions.

While we don't want to constantly drive around, we're okay with splitting the trip into two sections with a few hours in between. That's what I got talked in to, anyway. So the decision we're trying to make is: what other region to play first before we head to St Andrews?

We want to stay in St Andrews for a while so we can enjoy the town and be walking distance to pubs and dining and nightlife, as well as walking distance to Himalayas, Eden, etc. Just seems like an obvious choice since it's also close to Kingsbarns, Elie, Carnoustie, etc. I live in NYC so having less than an hour drive to a course is a treat.

The North Berwick day trip probably won't happen, I admit. As far as East Lothian in general, if we aren't getting on Muirfield it was tough to explain why we should do multiple days there instead of Ayrshire or the Northeast. But if anyone wants to make the case, I'm all ears.

I hope that gives a better sense of the issues. We land at 7am and would immediately bang out the drive and then play an afternoon round. Then 36 the next day, stay over again, play a morning round and then head to St Andrews.

Just need to decide between Northeast or Ayrshire. Any opinions on courses, accommodation, or weather differences are greatly appreciated.

[Niall C]

Mark


Depends where you are flying into. If flying into Glasgow I'd suggest Ayrshire. If Edinburgh suggest East Lothian. Also if you don't mind driving I'd suggest staying in Glasgow or Edinburgh to enjoy a more varied nightlife than you might get locally in Ayrshire or East Lothian.


Niall

[Mark Fedeli]

Mark


Depends where you are flying into. If flying into Glasgow I'd suggest Ayrshire. If Edinburgh suggest East Lothian. Also if you don't mind driving I'd suggest staying in Glasgow or Edinburgh to enjoy a more varied nightlife than you might get locally in Ayrshire or East Lothian.


Niall

Ah yes, sorry about that. Edinburgh is the airport both legs.


I'm all for East Lothian but haven't been able to get the non-architecture guys excited about the courses. I had to talk them out of Trump Aberdeen, as that's what they're expecting for every round. They were fine with North Berwick because it's high on my list, but I don't know how to sell Gullane, Dunbar, etc as better than Turnberry/Troon/Prestwick/etc or Cruden/Royal Aberdeen/Murcar/etc. If we wind up being able to get on Muirfield, that would change things.

[Ian Galbraith]

Let me try and sell East Lothian a little since I live there now.


Better weather on average than either Ayrshire and Aberdeen coast.
Closer to your airport for arrival/departure.
Lovely 'golf town" places to  stay & eat (North Berwick or Gullane) - no driving needed in the evening.
Easy access to the wonderful city of Edinburgh for night life /dinner (train from North Berwick is 30 min).
Unique chance to play the original Open venue, Musselburgh Old Links, Musselburgh Links, The Old Course.


That said, choosing between these areas is like choosing between your children - they are all wonderful. That is a good thing because it means there is no wrong choice for your trip, just different ones. Settle on any itinerary that doesn't have too much time in the car and you'll have a great time.

[Keith Grande]

Mark, get new friends! 


Seriously, you are planning the trip, be the benevolent dictator and listen to the sage advice offered.


I'm interested in your final decision, I'll be planning a trip soon with non GCA types also.


Any good courses which are near distilleries? 

[David_Tepper]

"Any good courses which are near distilleries?"

Keith G. -

Glenmorangie, Balblair & Clynelish are all within 15-20 miles of Royal Dornoch, Tain, Golspie and Brora.

Moray Old (aka Lossiemouth) is 20-30 miles from the wonders of Dufftown (Balvnie, Glenfiddich, et al) and the Spey Valley.

DT