Why can't North Berwick be the greatest course in the world?

[Jim Nugent]

Then you were indeed fortunate, John.

As I have posted before, at NBWL the otherwise affable starter Sam informed us in no uncertain terms that we were simply not permitted on the hallowed competition tees, no matter who we were.

As a result, 5800-odd yards from forward yellow tees in the middle of summer felt a little disappointing to be honest, and severely coloured my experience and enjoyment of the course

Are the yellow tees the ladies tees?

[Tom_Doak]

Are the yellow tees the ladies tees?

Technically they are the "visitor's tees."  They're usually set up about like senior tees in the U.S., just under 6000 yards, in order to get the visitors around the course more quickly. 

[Eric Smith]

Why can't North Berwick be the greatest course in the world?

John as long as you feel that way that's all that matters. [I know you know this ].

[Tim Fenchel]

Why can't North Berwick be the greatest course in the world?

John as long as you feel that way that's all that matters. [I know you know this ].

Exactly. You nailed it. If thinking about North Berwick puts a bigger smile on your face than any other and gives you that warm feeling in the stomach, similar to a great Kentucky sour mash...then that's all that matters.

[Josh Bills]

John, It is one of the greatest courses I have ever played and could easily make the argument for my enjoyment, it is the greatest right up there with NGLA for fun.  I wanted to immediately play more, unfortunately there was member play that prevented that.  I had planned on taking a bunch of photos at N. Berwick but found myself enjoying the round and the company and frankly did not take very many at all.  Pretty sure I could spend a week just in East Lothian and be perfectly happy. 


As for the town, The Auld Hoose was as welcoming as any bar, as was the Golfer's Rest, just a shame they all close so early. 

 
Here is a panoramic of the Gate hole, a truly quirky fun hole.  Hope to have the chance to play that course many more times in my life. 

[David McIntosh]

The red tees are the ladies tees, which come in at about 5,700-5,800 yards. There are yellow discs forward of the ladies, on the fairway as opposed to on the tee boxes, which I think are to be used by juniors although I have never seen anyone actually playing from the yellow tees as the smaller juniors tend to stick to the children's course.

[Mark Pearce]

The red tees are the ladies tees, which come in at about 5,700-5,800 yards. There are yellow discs forward of the ladies, on the fairway as opposed to on the tee boxes, which I think are to be used by juniors although I have never seen anyone actually playing from the yellow tees as the smaller juniors tend to stick to the children's course.

Is it possible that Matt played the Junior course by mistake?

[Bill_McBride]

North Berwick also has the finest hazard in all of golf. Any guesses?

The Firth of Forth when the tide is out.  A shot from the beach onto the second green is one of my favorite memories in golf.

[Mark Pearce]

David,


I was, as I said, being deliberately contrarian!


I agree that there is some interest in 1-4, though none of these is a great hole.  In fact, like so many great courses, NBWL is notable for a run of great golf (from 11-17, in my book, but some would start at 13).


NBWL is miles ahead of Gullane 1 in my book, by the way.  I'd have Renaissance in the running for 2nd best in East Lothian but actually I think NBWL is comfortably ahead of the competition for that spot.

I'm flattered, but as the architect of The Renaissance Club I can guarantee you are batty for thinking it's nearly as good as North Berwick.  Also ... the 2nd at North Berwick is a great hole.

I did say that NBWL was "comfortably ahead"!  I do think RC is better than Gullane or Dunbar, though.

[Ed Brzezowski]

This thread made me go back and open the pics from our two rounds there, it really is a very special place. We opened one trip with a round there and it was the perfect spot to start. Sadly it was Jimmy Buffet/Pirate night in town. Things went rapidly downhill afterward.

[John Kirk]

John,

I felt the same way when I played North Berwick.  I couldn't imagine a more satisfying way to play golf.  The front nine holes are unspectacular, but they play so well.  Then you start to play the fancy ones coming in.

[Matt Dawson]

The red tees are the ladies tees, which come in at about 5,700-5,800 yards. There are yellow discs forward of the ladies, on the fairway as opposed to on the tee boxes, which I think are to be used by juniors although I have never seen anyone actually playing from the yellow tees as the smaller juniors tend to stick to the children's course.

Is it possible that Matt played the Junior course by mistake?

[/size]

Very good Mark. 

[Thomas Dai]

Does 'the greatest course in the world' have to hold major amateur/professional events to become the 'greatest'? Just asking.
Atb

[Josh Bills]

Thomas, I hope not, because that would mean some organization would come in and toughen up the course for the professionals and ruin the joy that is N. Berwick.  It is great as is. 

[Thomas Dai]

Thomas, I hope not, because that would mean some organization would come in and toughen up the course for the professionals and ruin the joy that is N. Berwick.  It is great as is.

Make the top ams/pros play with a significantly restricted distance ball. No need for changes then!


Atb

[John Kavanaugh]

North Berwick also has the finest hazard in all of golf. Any guesses?

The Firth of Forth when the tide is out.  A shot from the beach onto the second green is one of my favorite memories in golf.

I thought the car park along the right side of the drivable 18th was genius, even if it was built before cars were invented. I don't recall a casual round of golf where everyone in the group was so nervous over a simple tee shot.

[John Kirk]

When I played the course (once), the wind was blowing right to left on the 18th tee, and I purposely closed my stance and aimed my drive out over the parking lot.  It caught the wind and drew back a little, and I made a tap-in par from the front right fringe.  As it turns out, you're better missing left.

[Sean_A]

North Berwick also has the finest hazard in all of golf. Any guesses?

The Firth of Forth when the tide is out.  A shot from the beach onto the second green is one of my favorite memories in golf.

I thought the car park along the right side of the drivable 18th was genius, even if it was built before cars were invented. I don't recall a casual round of golf where everyone in the group was so nervous over a simple tee shot.

Yes...you would feel especially stupid if you hit your own rental!  In some ways the 18th here is better than at TOC because the hole is more reachable and therefore guys are having a go. 

What tickles me is that guys will cite one or two average holes as a reason why NB is not all that while completely glossing over the seven holes which are outstanding .  How many courses truly have seven oustanding holes with two of them iconic (2, 4, 11, 13, 15, 16 & 17), one playing over a large body of water and one with one of the wildest greens on the planet?  The variety on display is phenomenal. This is rare terrirtory which Muirfield doesn't come close to touching. 

Ciao

[Niall C]

Interesting choices. Why the 4th and 11th ?


Niall

[Sean_A]

The 4th is a superb par 3 which really rewards the thinking golfer.  It doesn't look tight, but a back hole location is strictly for amateurs 

The 11th too is an unsung hole of great quality.  It is especially good if one has a chance to reach the green in two...few long approaches can match this.  It might even be a better hole from the ladies tee.  Again, it doesn't look terribly dangerous, but the right greenside bunker is very troublesome. 

That said, the 12th has been spoiled a bit with additional bunkering.  AND, many of the holes are threatening to become far too narrow.  The club is allowing fairways to shrink and relying on weather to keep the rough in check...during my last visit this plan was failing.  The club should immediately expand the fairways and look to kill back the rough somehow.  A huge element of NB's appeal is how playable the course is...that philosophy should be kept front and centre.  we don't want another Muirfield with waving knee high rough...lets keep that nonsense for championship courses.

Ciao

[David Davis]

I'd have to agree with Sean on this one. Certainly one of my personal favorites and one I would love to play on a daily basis. I know a lot of people that would argue JK's premise that it is the best in the world. It's clearly also an awesome members club (s) and how many courses these days can you go out and play easily in 2.5 - 3 hours on top of that. I think every hole is interesting and at the very least great fun, it's memorable and has tons of variation. Basically checks all the boxes.


Also really agree on the rough part, definitely doesn't need to rough detracting from the overall enjoyment of such a brilliant links.

[John Kavanaugh]

North Berwick also has the finest hazard in all of golf. Any guesses?

The Firth of Forth when the tide is out.  A shot from the beach onto the second green is one of my favorite memories in golf.

I thought the car park along the right side of the drivable 18th was genius, even if it was built before cars were invented. I don't recall a casual round of golf where everyone in the group was so nervous over a simple tee shot.

Yes...you would feel especially stupid if you hit your own rental!  In some ways the 18th here is better than at TOC because the hole is more reachable and therefore guys are having a go. 

What tickles me is that guys will cite one or two average holes as a reason why NB is not all that while completely glossing over the seven holes which are outstanding .  How many courses truly have seven oustanding holes with two of them iconic (2, 4, 11, 13, 15, 16 & 17), one playing over a large body of water and one with one of the wildest greens on the planet?  The variety on display is phenominal. This is rare terrirtory which Muirfield doesn't come close to touching. 

Ciao

The hole I most want to get another shot at is 7. My drive didn't find the fairway so I of course found the burn on my second. Even at that the drop was difficult with the severe slope down to the water. Let's not pretend that many of the greats in Scotland don't also have a forced carry that requires one hell of a shot.


You are correct about 12. I thought I had finally had a lock birdie or a good shot at eagle only to find my ball in the right side bunker. Hello bogey.

[John Kavanaugh]

My mistake, I meant to reference the reachable par five 11th on the above post. Seemingly good shots to the green feed down into the bunker which doesn't leave a simple recovery. I was lucky enough to get two shots at it after my first returned home.  http://www.northberwickgolfclub.com/the-course/hole-11/

[Mark Pearce]

we don't want another Muirfield with waving knee high rough...lets keep that nonsense for championship courses.

Ah, that old canard again.  I have played both recently and the rough is thick in places at both.  I lost more balls at NBWL than I did at Muirfield.

[Mark Pearce]

11 is a very good par 5 which I like a lot, an interesting drive and that greenside bunker makes any approach one that needs to be thought about.  To pick it as outstanding but not to pick 14 seems a bit odd to me, though.