A trip to England & Scotland, or: Fantastic Courses and Where to Find Them

[Eric Smith]

A quick threadjack... contemplating a trip to England in 2018 (i.e. London heathland courses and then SE Links courses). Question about the drivetime... can one base the SE out of Sandwich or Deal and get over to play Rye, or is it better to stay in Rye for 1 night? We're looking at minimizing the number of hotels so that we can just have two bases of operation.

Wayne,


We never saw Rye the town, but I've heard from both Sean Arble and Adam Lawrence that it is a nice place to visit. We based ourselves in Deal at Number One B&B, owned by GCAer Mark Chaplin and his wife Nicky. Staying there for a couple of nights and getting to know them was one of the highlights of the trip. You're only 5 minutes to Royal Cinque Ports Golf Club and maybe ten minutes from Royal St George's. Our drive to and from Rye Golf Club was an hour each way. Easy peasy.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

A quick threadjack... contemplating a trip to England in 2018 (i.e. London heathland courses and then SE Links courses). Question about the drivetime... can one base the SE out of Sandwich or Deal and get over to play Rye, or is it better to stay in Rye for 1 night? We're looking at minimizing the number of hotels so that we can just have two bases of operation.

Wayne,


We never saw Rye the town, but I've heard from both Sean Arble and Adam Lawrence that it is a nice place to visit. We based ourselves in Deal at Number One B&B, owned by GCAer Mark Chaplin and his wife Nicky. Staying there for a couple of nights and getting to know them was one of the highlights of the trip. You're only 5 minutes to Royal Cinque Ports Golf Club and maybe ten minutes from Royal St George's. Our drive to and from Rye Golf Club was an hour each way. Easy peasy.

Fantastic... just the answer I was hoping for!!!  Many thanks. Now, on with the show...

[Eric Smith]

Where's Sheehy?? Where I knew he was when he wasn't at the club to greet us - at home in bed, the lush! After waiting around for 30 minutes we went back to the car and called our host - "hellooooo sir" I heard on the other end - with a hint of pillow still on his bald head. The man has forgotten us! "Two in a row!!" my good friend Barry lashes out hysterically. No, not completely forgotten this time, just a bit of a delay Brian assured us and told us to go inside and have some breakfast and he'd be there in half an hour.


Folks, it was worth the wait!


 

[Matt Bosela]

Eric -


Just want to say I'm enjoying this immensely.  Keep it up! 

[Adam Lawrence]

Eric -- I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on some of these drive times. The most obviously wrong is North Berwick to St Andrews. That is eighty miles, and once you're across the Forth there's virtually no dual carriageway. To do that in an hour is simply not possible. However fast Holty drives.


Three hours from Deal to Hollinwell is just about conceivable. Google says it is three hours and 49 minutes for 225 miles; Google is beatable, but to go around the M25 and up the M1 at that speed means you either did it at the dead of night or you are the luckiest bastard on the face of God's green earth. Also, weren't you supposed to be going to Hollinwell via Heathrow to make a pickup?

[Eric Smith]

Eric -- I'm sorry, but I'm calling bullshit on some of these drive times. The most obviously wrong is North Berwick to St Andrews. That is eighty miles, and once you're across the Forth there's virtually no dual carriageway. To do that in an hour is simply not possible. However fast Holty drives.


Three hours from Deal to Hollinwell is just about conceivable. Google says it is three hours and 49 minutes for 225 miles; Google is beatable, but to go around the M25 and up the M1 at that speed means you either did it at the dead of night or you are the luckiest bastard on the face of God's green earth. Also, weren't you supposed to be going to Hollinwell via Heathrow to make a pickup?

Adam,


Some or one?   I did put a smiley on the St Andrews time. Simon did get us to St Andrews quickly however, around 1.5 hours. The other times are correct. We found Google to be off on most every one of the drive times. We got to James at Hollinwell 30 minutes before the time we had original estimated so I was able to enjoy a Hot & Tasty and three ciders in the house before getting underway.


As for Heathrow, thankfully we didn't have to go there - my friend flew in a day early and took the train down to Deal to meet us.

[Marty Bonnar]

That is eighty miles, and once you're across the Forth there's virtually no dual carriageway.

And I'm calling bulldog on that! I'm sitting 23 miles from St Andrews right now and the dual carriageway is just along the road!

Meh!

F.

[Eric Smith]

We played the New and were able to see right away the expanse that is Walton Heath. From the start there are holes from the Old woven into the land right alongside the New. Wish we could've stuck around to play them both.


The first hole was a nice short four where I could put the old man bunt swing into play and play a putter from the fairway on my second shot. Here is the Irishman again:






The ground was very firm and fast under foot and it had just rained several inches the day and night before - so that was impressive - and was just about the prettiest course without an ocean I think I'd ever seen up to that point. [Stay tuned.]

Have a look:





































We buzzed around in x:xx [I'm afraid to post the time for fear that Adam will call bs.]  


After a Coke we said our goodbyes to Sir Brian and jumped in the car for our drive down to Deal where we would meet the estimable Mark Chaplin, who arranged a glorious late afternoon round for Barry and me at the amazing Royal Cinque Ports Golf Club. Getting goose bumps just thinking about it.

[Mark Bourgeois]

my question is what would you do differently (if anything) next time.

Honestly can't think of anything I'd have done differently. Maybe stay a day longer at Number One!

We played the New and were able to see right away the expanse that is Walton Heath. From the start there are holes from the Old woven into the land right alongside the New. Wish we could've stuck around to play them both.

That's two (so far).

[Eric Smith]

That's two (so far).

Why I oughta ...

[Mark Bourgeois]

Well, in your defense you're right. You shoulda stuck around to play the Old. 

[Michael Whitaker]

Eric,


I particularly like the varied bunker styles at Walton Heath. Some are typical revetted style, some "free form" fuzzy edged and some more "formal" with clean edges. I think it is one of the features that makes Walton Heath feel unique. It seems most of the top courses have one particular style of bunker (especially revetted) and carry that throughout. I love Walton Heath!

Sheehy is a fine fellow and those of us who have been able to spend some time with him are better for it. Now, if we could just break him of the "swag" obsession.

[James Boon]

At least now I've seen that drive time I know why there were so many questions about speed cameras when you arrived... 

[Tim Gallant]

Eric,


I particularly like the varied bunker styles at Walton Heath. Some are typical revetted style, some "free form" fuzzy edged and some more "formal" with clean edges. I think it is one of the features that makes Walton Heath feel unique. It seems most of the top courses have one particular style of bunker (especially revetted) and carry that throughout. I love Walton Heath!

Sheehy is a fine fellow and those of us who have been able to spend some time with him are better for it. Now, if we could just break him of the "swag" obsession.

Michael,


Interesting point. This is the feature that I want to see most at the new Trump course as I understand that they have both, revetted bunkers, and more blown-out bunkers. In my mind, the two contrast, but I suppose there is no reason why they can't work in harmony.

[Eric Smith]

Deal

The excitement of visiting Deal ramps up markedly when making your way through Dover and seeing the castle and the white cliffs.











When I helped move my sister to London in December 2012 I was able to make a quick visit to Deal with Brian Sheehy and play Royal Cinque Ports. I loved the golf course but it was a cold day that got colder as we made our way further out and I wasn't prepared for it (couldn't feel my hands on the closing holes) so my enjoyment suffered quite a bit.This time would be MUCH different, thankfully. If I could draw up a perfect moment to play golf - perfect weather - perfect setting - perfect time of day - Deal on July 3, 2016 at 6:00pm would be it. PERRRRFECT!!!!!!!!

[Michael Whitaker]

Man... that summertime rough looks tough!    I usually visit in early spring or fall, so I've only seen the course in summer once. Could you find a ball in that stuff?


Also, did you play 16 as a 4 or from the back tee as a 5?

[Eric Smith]

Man... that summertime rough looks tough!    I usually visit in early spring or fall, so I've only seen the course in summer once. Could you find a ball in that stuff?


Also, did you play 16 as a 4 or from the back tee as a 5?

Yeah, the rough was very thick at every course we played on the trip. Difficult to find a golf ball in it.


On the front nine at Deal I managed to stay out of it for the most part but coming in was frustrating as it was almost always a lost ball when I missed a fairway, which was often! I was 4 up with 5 to play in our match and ended up all square.   Barry was cruising in with bogeys.


We played 16 from the yellow tee as a 4.


I love RCP. You are a lucky lad, Mike!

[Dan Moore]

Love those shots from the 11th tee. Making me feel home away from homesick!

[Thomas Dai]

Always nice to see photos of RCP/Deal. I love the rough.
Atb

[Ulrich Mayring]

Not sure I've ever seen Deal so green. Must have been a hell of a summer there

Ulrich

[Mark Chaplin]

Ulrich we've had a warm and sunny early summer but every few days there's been a storm to feed the grass. It's just starting to dry out now.

The rough at Deal is tough but the fairways and semi are generous, James Bledge explains here why the thick stuff cannot be cut back after early spring. The skylarks over Deal, Sandwich and Princes are wonderful and we should do everything in our power to protect them.

https://royalcinqueports.wordpress.com/

Eric thank you for your kind words, Nicky and I enjoyed your visit and were pleased you could all join us for dinner at 81.

[Bill_McBride]

Drive times


The legs between destinations ranged from an hour to 3 hours:


Walton Heath to Deal: 1.5 hrs
Deal to Rye: 1 hr
Deal to Hollinwell: 3 hrs
Hollinwell to Woodhall Spa: 1 hr 15
Woodhall Spa to Ganton: 2 hrs
Ganton to Bamburgh: 3 hrs
Bamburgh to N. Berwick: 1 hr
N. Berwick to St Andrews: 1.5 hrs *1 hr


*Simon Holt was driving

A quick threadjack... contemplating a trip to England in 2018 (i.e. London heathland courses and then SE Links courses). Question about the drivetime... can one base the SE out of Sandwich or Deal and get over to play Rye, or is it better to stay in Rye for 1 night? We're looking at minimizing the number of hotels so that we can just have two bases of operation.

Deal to Rye is an easy drive.  Don't overlook Littlestone in between. It's a very good links course, and one of the holes at Old Macdonald is called "Littlestone" after the 16th.

[ward peyronnin]

Eric

Since you featured the Viking Way in on of your initial photos I was anticipating a shot of the "Ancient Roman Way" somewhere around no 10 at Deal?

[Eric Smith]

Mark,


Great time at 81 and no doubt in my mind the Brazilian monkfish stew I had was the best meal of the trip. Amazing!




Bill,


Littlestone is on the radar for next time. Thanks.




Wardo,


Darn it I wish I had known where to look for it. Putting in on the list for next time, along with the putter at Rye. Oops.


Next up: Royal St George's and Rye

[Eric Smith]

Royal St George's

Barry and I were fortunate in that we had reserved the earliest tee time on the Monday, but it was off of the 10th tee, so we wouldn't be going off of the hole Pat Ward-Thomas chose as the finest opener in golf in The World Atlas of Golf. Or so we thought! Thanfully, we arrived earlier than the golf shop staff and the members on this fine fourth of July morning, so we got to have a coffee and a brief tour of the clubhouse:














The time was approaching 8:00 when the young golf professional noticed us milling about and asked us if we wanted to go ahead of the members and start on hole #1. We'd already prepaid our visitor fees months ago so in all of about two seconds we were sprinting out of the courtyard and toward the first tee.





I took only a few photos unfortunately but here they are:


























It is obvious that Royal St George's is a special course. It has the ground game fun I enjoy coupled with some extraordinary terrain - which is beastly in places where the first time visitor can and will be intimidated mightily as the wind and the elevation changes conspire with the twisting dunescape to confound the golfer. The design to me is one I don't believe I can compare to any other links I've played, which is refreshing - I know I've grown tired of comparisons but unfortunately am my own worst enemy when it comes to making them - but to me St. George's is very much its own brand. A championship links with width, an excellent set of greens, great par 3s, short and long 4s, blindness(!!) (love it), quirk, in other words - variety. And it is big - spread out far and wide throughout the dunes next to the sea.


The golf course was in amazing shape too - yes the rough is brutal - but man oh man what excellent, tight turf to play off of and the greens were a couple of feet faster than the others we'd played so far. It was a real treat to play the course in such fine condition.


I said on another thread recently that if I had 10 plays at Deal and Royal St George's, I'd split them 5/5, with my first and last rounds at Deal. I mean that because, well, I really love Deal, but mostly I feel I'll play better there than at RSG. In that sense, the two courses remind me of two courses out on Long Island - Shinnecock and National (there's the comparison tick again). Part of the reason I prefer NGLA is because I have played better there. In that respect, these two courses, St George's and Shinnecock are maybe the best examples of courses I greatly admire and respect that make me wish I was a better golfer.


Everyone should visit Royal St George's.