Bethpage Black

[Matthew Prince]

Played Bethpage Black yesterday from the tips. Is there a sterner test of golf anywhere?


The course is just completely unrelenting, with forced carries to nearly every green, most often with a long iron, hybrid or fairway wood in your hands (assuming you're not hacking out of the deep rough or fescue from an errant tee shot). There are probably 3 or 4 holes on the course that you can score on (including the 18th, to which one of my playing partners remarked: "it doesn't matter that you can score on 18, since you're so beat up by the time you get there").


By the way, the course is in fabulous condition as they prepare for the Barclays in August (and a couple serious amateur tournaments in the next two weeks). For any NY area GCAers, I'd highly recommend getting out there before they shut down pre-Barclays. You probably won't get a chance to see it in this condition any other time too soon.

[RussBaribault]

Just my opinion....It's a awesome golf course. There is nothing bad about it. The course of course is difficult from the tips at 7450 yards. That's US Open conditions. At the regular men's tees it's not a hard course.

[Joe Schackman]

I played there for the first time last year (despite growing up about 90 minutes away) and it was just a fantastic experience. The course puts such a premium on iron play, particularly long iron play. If you miss by a fraction the runoff to the bottom of the bunkers is just such a killer.

I kept thinking of the line from the course tour; "Jack Nicklaus must regret that the U.S. Open was never played here during his prime as The Black relentlessly asks the golfer to hit highlong irons."

It is no wonder why Tiger won there.

[Matthew Prince]

Russ, I respectfully disagree. I still find Black quite difficult from the regular men's tees. Stretching it out to the back makes a big difference, sure, but it's still quite a test from 6700. Definitely a hard course in my book, from any of the tee markers.

Just my opinion....It's a awesome golf course. There is nothing bad about it. The course of course is difficult from the tips at 7450 yards. That's US Open conditions. At the regular men's tees it's not a hard course.

[Cliff Hamm]

Just my opinion....It's a awesome golf course. There is nothing bad about it. The course of course is difficult from the tips at 7450 yards. That's US Open conditions. At the regular men's tees it's not a hard course.

Russ what is your handicap?

[Ian Andrew]

It's relentless because of the set-up, not because of the design.

It makes my list of worst grassing lines of any golf course. The roughs between fairway and green are archaic. The scale was lost with the recent narrowing of the fairway lines and now its just a test of execution. The fairway bunkers are set so far back from the fairways now, with wide swaths of rough in between, so that they no longer relevant to play.

I played it well before and love it,. I played it after the narrowing and was profoundly disappointed. I admire the layout, but I remain confused by the way they choose to present it.

[Tim Martin]

Russ, I respectfully disagree. I still find Black quite difficult from the regular men's tees. Stretching it out to the back makes a big difference, sure, but it's still quite a test from 6700. Definitely a hard course in my book, from any of the tee markers.

Just my opinion....It's a awesome golf course. There is nothing bad about it. The course of course is difficult from the tips at 7450 yards. That's US Open conditions. At the regular men's tees it's not a hard course.

+1-The course is plenty hard from the white tees. 6700 yds-73.8/135

[JWinick]

You can argue that it is the best "16-hole" golf course in America with 1 and 18 being forgettable.    I think it is an amazing piece of property with one of the best ball-striking tests in golf.   The middle of that golf course is the toughest middle I have ever played.   


I grew up a few miles from there, but never played it before they upgraded it.   Getting on the course is not that bad last time we tried - just show up early (like 5 am) and you'll get on.   Surprisingly, very few of the people who show up early want to play the Black course.   

[Andy Shulman]

I agree - to a degree - with Ian and very much disagree with Russ.  As a guy who drives the ball around 220 yards, there was more than one par-4 where I had no chance of reaching the green from 210+ yards and thus had to lay up short of where the fairway ended, which was often 50 or more yards short of the green.  I don't know whether it would have made a difference, though, if it wasn't rough because those greens were elevated quite a bit off the fairway.


As for the bunkers, they certainly don't collect slightly mis-hit shots like the ones on links courses do. 

[Jeff Shelman]

I need to get back out there to see it again.


I have only played there once and it rained from the first tee to the 18th green.


Would love to see it dry.

[David Cronheim]

I think it's one of the least interesting courses in the Open rota and I'm glad that it's not coming back any time soon. Sadly, we'll have to watch a couple PGA's and a Ryder Cup there.


Is there a major championship golf course anywhere with more boring greens?

[Eric LeFante]

I think it's one of the least interesting courses in the Open rota and I'm glad that it's not coming back any time soon. Sadly, we'll have to watch a couple PGA's and a Ryder Cup there.


Is there a major championship golf course anywhere with more boring greens?

I don't agree with your first statement David but I agree that the Black has the flattest green's in championship golf. What's ironic is that Tiger Woods had 4 three-putts in the final 27 holes of the 2002 U.S. Open (He had zero for 72 holes at the 1997 Masters).

If we assume the greens are the flattest, doesn't that mean the Black may be the most challenging tee to green golf course in the U.S.? I believe it is for every level of golfer. It is 6,220 from Red tees and 6,680 yards from the White tees. The pros struggled at the two U.S. Opens and one Barclays held at the Black. Tiger won at 3 under, Lucas Glover won at 4 under, both when the course was very soft. Nick Whatney won at 10 under but the Tour basically gave the pros 4 strokes by playing the 7th hole as a very easy par 5.

There is a lot of strategy involved off the tee at the Black and there usually is one side of the fairway a player can play safely towards. The terrain and bunkering is very dramatic. When I first played the Black I couldn't believe how different it looked than a traditional championship course like Baltrusol or Winged Foot. I can't imagine too many avid golfers turning down an opportunity to play the Black to see how their game stacks up. If you play this game, you must enjoy some punishment.


The atmosphere is electric. I can't think of a better place to be as a golf fan than around the 16th and 17th green at the 2024 Ryder Cup.






 

[Steve Lapper]

I think it's one of the least interesting courses in the Open rota and I'm glad that it's not coming back any time soon. Sadly, we'll have to watch a couple PGA's and a Ryder Cup there.


Is there a major championship golf course anywhere with more boring greens?

 
 I'd argue that the majority of BB's greens (#'s 2,3,4,5,6, 8, 9, 11,13, 14,15,16,& 17) are as exciting as anything found at Olympic, Atlanta Athletic Club, Baltusrol Lower, Sahalee or Whistling Straights. When they are kept quick (>11 stimp), many subtle breaks emerge and several of the greens are already as well sloped as is feasible for the shot received.


I'd agree with Eric's previous statement as to slope, yet the cants on a few (#'s 2,9,14,15,17) are as severe as you can find on ANY other major championship venues. The Black is indeed as fine a test of tee-to-green ball striking as exists at the championship level. Having played those aforementioned venues, I find the Black easily as interesting, if not more so, than all of them.

[David Cronheim]

[I guess the software didn't like my comment about the Black and deleted it. Too lazy to retype]

[Matthew Prince]

My buddy Jed Weinstein snapped these shots when we were out yesterday. Not the highest quality pics I've seen on GCA, but they give a sense of what the course is looking like.

I can't figure out how to post the images properly ... if you right click on them and "open image in new tab" you'll see the full images. They got truncated below.




Walking off front tee box of 10:







14th hole:







17th hole from behind the green:




18th hole:

[Anton]

It has always been a monster.  Simply the best Tillinghast course in my opinion (don't tell my affiliates at Ridgewood).    Pre-renovation for the 02 Open it was every bit as difficult.  In my prime I shot 75 from the tips and felt like I shot a 59.  My primary play there took place in the 90s and involved over a dozen trips up in the middle of the night to wait in line.   I have not been back since 2005 but I can only imagine it has not gotten any easier. 

Some people I play with nowadays feel that the forced carries are unfair but I think there is a nice balance at the Black.  The par 4s are the backbone of the course, as is the case with most Tillie courses.  1, 7, 11, 12, & 16 all offer ground approaches.  2, 6, 9, & 18 are short & mid length par 4s that accept mid & short irons.  The toughest approaches are 5, 10, & especially 15 which are the uphill long iron/hybrid holes.   Those are the true, well documented, card wreckers.  Just brutal holes that you try to escape from with minimal damage to your pride.  :0

The weakest part of BB in my opinion are the par 3s.  The 17th is the best of the bunch but the other 3 could use some work.  The green on 14 is way too big for such a short hole.  The 8th is in a nice setting but the hole could use some earthwork to add interest.  The 3rd is kind of landlocked but I think a top designer could add interest to the hole. 

Overall though it is a fantastic test of golf and I hope to make the journey again.  Thanks for posting the pics.  Brings back fond memories. 

[Matthew Prince]

Anton,


I agree with nearly everything you wrote. In terms of holes that allow for ground approaches, though, 11 and 16 hardly qualify. 11 has a narrow neck with a large false front, and 16 is really only open on the far left side of the green (you can see this in the background of the picture I posted from behind the 17th green). 7, which plays as a par 5 for us mere mortals, also offers a ground approach only on the left side of the green, but with a bit more of an opening than 16. Thus we are left with really only 1 and 12 which truly allow for a ground approach. This course really is a test of your aerial game, particularly with long irons and hybrids.

Matt

[jeffwarne]

It's relentless because of the set-up, not because of the design.

It makes my list of worst grassing lines of any golf course. The roughs between fairway and green are archaic. The scale was lost with the recent narrowing of the fairway lines and now its just a test of execution. The fairway bunkers are set so far back from the fairways now, with wide swaths of rough in between, so that they no longer relevant to play.

I played it well before and love it,. I played it after the narrowing and was profoundly disappointed. I admire the layout, but I remain confused by the way they choose to present it.

+1
add 600 yards of tees and don't cut the rough at ANY course and it's hard.
Doesn't make it good or great and it's not design at all-just presentation.


Bethpage is a good design, but the amateurish setup takes it to mediocre.


It was good before the redesign and was presented as such.
The redesign is not bad but the presentation sucks

[Anton]

Anton,


I agree with nearly everything you wrote. In terms of holes that allow for ground approaches, though, 11 and 16 hardly qualify. 11 has a narrow neck with a large false front, and 16 is really only open on the far left side of the green (you can see this in the background of the picture I posted from behind the 17th green). 7, which plays as a par 5 for us mere mortals, also offers a ground approach only on the left side of the green, but with a bit more of an opening than 16. Thus we are left with really only 1 and 12 which truly allow for a ground approach. This course really is a test of your aerial game, particularly with long irons and hybrids.

Matt

It's been a while since I've been there.  I do remember the false front on 11 because I had hit that chip quite a few times after failing to reach the green from the left waste area.  Seemed to be my nemesis on a few occasions.    But I seem to remember it being a wider mouth there to accommodate a run up.  Probably was narrowed by Mr. Jones.

16 has closed down at the front of the green.  Its a shame because the fairway used to be wider so you could hit up the left side of the fairway (challenging the rough line) and get in a good position to run a long iron on.  The angle of the green allowed that shot if you could get the ball far enough left.  If you were right then you had to fly it over the right greenside bunker.  Rees took the options out of it I guess. 

My memory has faded so I guess I better trek on over the bridge soon.  I remember mostly playing it with rock hard tee boxes, burned out fairways & greens, and millions of footprints in the unraked bunkers.  When I last  played it in 2005, it was a rainy chilly day so everything required an aerial shot.  2002 was the other time I played post-renovation and that was immediately before the open.  It was very good but also very lush.