Which Confidential Guide grade do you give Royal Troon?

[Niall Hay]

By the CG system, I guess it is a 7. Especially when you look at the holes individually. Outside of Postage Stamp and The Railway there are no uniques holes. But somehow I think it is an 8 based upon the overall pleasure it gives to the golfer; it is a thoroughly enjoyable links golf course. Ran touched upon the superb links playing conditions. The course also allows for very changeable weather conditions. It easily a course I could play every day and it passed the 18th green test: I wanted to  run straight to the first tee.

7 is a great and unique hole

[James Brown]

I would rate Troon an 8, but I have always thought the Troon experience suffered from the long time 36 hole policy forcing you to play Portland and Troon to get on.  I don't know if this still applies, but found it annoying.

This still shouldn't have any impact on the design of the course. Many on this site complain about the same thing. But the merits of the course should be seperate from the cost, experience, weather or other non architectural factors.

Whether we like it or not, these factors influence opinions.

[Mark Pearce]

At least two people on this threa preferred pre-Trump Turnberry to Troon.  Wow.  Just goes to show how personal and subjective this can be.  For me, Troon is a 7 but a good 7.

[Sean_A]

Mark

Sure its personal.  Someone said Troon is one of the best courses in the UK...it wouldn't crack my top 50 best. 

Ciao

[Tim Gallant]

Only having seen the course twice, once on a calm day and once in a prevailing wind, I am inclined to score it between a 7 and 8.

At first, I bought into the notion that Troon only has good holes from 7-12. However, on repeat plays, I really appreciated holes 13-17.

I will agree that the start certainly leaves something to be desired, but they aren't bad holes per say, just not very interesting. That said, holes 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 15 and 18 all make up for this lackluster start.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Great set of Par 3's - all 4 are excellent.

And holes 7, 10, 11, 13 and 15 are also top-notch.

6 is a really solid par-5, as is 16.

18 is a beautiful finish with the clubhouse and OB right behind.

Some of the ground contours through the course are wonderful - check out the fairway on 13. Who needs big elevation change when you have great ground movement?

The greens don't have huge internal contour but they generally have some. Not to be sniffed at and all the green sites are very good.

A suitable helping of quirk (think drive on 10, shoulder before green on 15, railway on 11 etc...).

Whole course is perfectly in scale.

Way the land joins between 7, 8 and 10 is fantastic.

Worth an 8 I think....

Sean - Giving Glasgow Gailes a 4? I hope you get to play it again.

Along with Moray (coincidentally Niall Carlton's other course), I think this could be the most underrated course in Scotland. Both deserve a 6.

[Sean_A]

Ally

I am told Gailes is vastly improved with major gorse etc clearance.  I played it many years ago and found the course miles too tight.  It was a lost ball fest.  Plus, there aren't any compelling holes that I recall...just a steady stream of solid golf...which probably meets the definition of a 6.  Bottom line, the lack of space turned me off to ever going back and nothing I saw if imagined with proper space which could entice for a return...especially at £95 a pop...absolutely crazy money for a game there 

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Ally


I am told Gailes is vastly improved with major gorse etc clearance.  I played it many years ago and found the course miles too tight.  It was a lost ball fest.  Plus, there aren't any compelling holes that I recall...just a steady stream of solid golf...which probably meets the definition of a 6.  Bottom line, the lack of space turned me off to ever going back and nothing I saw if imagined with proper space which could entice for a return...especially at £95 a pop...absolutely crazy money for a game there  [size=78%] [/size]


Ciao

Ah, I see.

I didn't notice encroachment of gorse at all so things must have changed. A good few holes were lined by tough ball finding heather but I don't think we had too much trouble with width.

The greens are a beautifully executed set.

[Carl Nichols]

Are the green-to-tee walks as long as they look on TV (and/or is that a function of the pros playing tees that exacerbate the walk)?

[Mark Chaplin]

Carl yes, the pros have big walks back.

Only played Troon once about 4 years ago, I remember the Postage Stamp, 10 tee (because of the landing lights), 11th and ditch on 16th. I'm really struggling to remember anything else of the course.

[Niall Hay]

Great set of Par 3's - all 4 are excellent.

And holes 7, 10, 11, 13 and 15 are also top-notch.

6 is a really solid par-5, as is 16.

18 is a beautiful finish with the clubhouse and OB right behind.

Some of the ground contours through the course are wonderful - check out the fairway on 13. Who needs big elevation change when you have great ground movement?

The greens don't have huge internal contour but they generally have some. Not to be sniffed at and all the green sites are very good.

A suitable helping of quirk (think drive on 10, shoulder before green on 15, railway on 11 etc...).

Whole course is perfectly in scale.

Way the land joins between 7, 8 and 10 is fantastic.

Worth an 8 I think....

]

Spot on.

[Mark Smolens]

On the first tee at Troon, our three ball was joined by a pro from Colorado -- he and I pummeled my compatriots in a better ball -- when the older caddy in the group took all of our balls (presumably to decide the order of play) and threw them into the air, advising his fellow caddies "lads, if they hit the ground, after the round we drink!" Much fun and hilarity with these four caddies ensued. The highlight of the day could well have been the golfer's lunch -- I must've had 6 pieces of that cold, roasted chicken -- but I would definitely put Troon on the list for a return visit across the pond. I'm in Ran's camp on this one...

[David Davis]

For me Troon is an 8. (Prestwick a 9).


I also think the holes laid out on the lest interesting ground are excellent holes.


Ran says an 8 is Top 100, with all due respect, I'll vote Troon higher than Nine Bridges, Ayodhya Links and Oitavos Dunes in a heart beat. All of which are Top 100 I've read.


Sean, I highly respect your opinion but I think you need to get back to Royal Troon ;-)

[Jon Wiggett]

I will not give a figure as I do not believe in such things. I played Troon once back in the late 80's and whilst the welcome from the club officials/members (those we met) was awful despite them being happy enough to take the hefty greenfee I really liked the course.


I thought Troon had a real rhythm to it with a good routing and in the holes 8 and 13 two absolute crackers. Is it worth the huge greenfee? Absolutely not but it is a great course.


Jon

[Niall C]

Why only a 7 or an 8 ? I appreciate that Ran is trying to champion a course that generally gets stick on here but why do it down by restricting it to an 8 ?

I think this thread shows why Americans shouldn’t be allowed to be raters when it comes to rating links. Anything with a nice view and a raised green gets deemed all-Scotland/England/Wales/Ireland (delete as appropriate).  

Niall

[Sean_A]

Niall

Why not just give all the Scottish courses you favour 9s & 10s and be done with it 

I hasten to remind folks...that an 8 is something like top 50 in the world.  I haven't seen enough 8s and above to have a steady footing with this sort of world stage talk.  But if I even go to my top 25 best in GB&I, I can't see how Troon fits in.  That said, we can all differ in our opinions. 

Ciao

[Niall Hay]

Niall


Why not just give all the Scottish courses you favour 9s & 10s and be done with it 


I hasten to remind folks...that an 8 is something like top 50 in the world.  I haven't seen enough 8s and above to have a steady footing with this sort of world stage talk.  But if I even go to my top 25 best in GB&I, I can't see how Troon fits in.  That said, we can all differ in our opinions.  My #25 is Woking (basically a tie with Renaissance, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay and The Island) which I would give a 7.  Even if I thought Troon was Woking's equal, I couldn't put it in the class of an 8...which would be top 10 GB&I for me. 


Ciao

Sean, can you provide your top 25 or top 50 list?  Understanding you are not a Royal Troon fan, but not Top 50 in UK?

[Jason Topp]

6

Other than the loop from 7-12, the course sits on monotonous flat land devoid of interest.  The fairways are largely bowling alleys with a number of bunkers meeting out punishment and providing some strategic interest.  The course fails to provide adequate variety in an out and back setting.  Other courses with similar routings do a much better job of creating interest - Old Course, Royal Dornoch and North Berwick. 

[Niall C]

6

Other than the loop from 7-12, the course sits on monotonous flat land devoid of interest.  The fairways are largely bowling alleys with a number of bunkers meeting out punishment and providing some strategic interest.  The course fails to provide adequate variety in an out and back setting.  Other courses with similar routings do a much better job of creating interest - Old Course, Royal Dornoch and North Berwick.

As I was saying, Americans really shouldn't rate links courses. 


Niall

[Sean_A]

Niall


Why not just give all the Scottish courses you favour 9s & 10s and be done with it 


I hasten to remind folks...that an 8 is something like top 50 in the world.  I haven't seen enough 8s and above to have a steady footing with this sort of world stage talk.  But if I even go to my top 25 best in GB&I, I can't see how Troon fits in.  That said, we can all differ in our opinions.  My #25 is Woking (basically a tie with Renaissance, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay and The Island) which I would give a 7.  Even if I thought Troon was Woking's equal, I couldn't put it in the class of an 8...which would be top 10 GB&I for me. 


Ciao

Sean, can you provide your top 25 or top 50 list?  Understanding you are not a Royal Troon fan, but not Top 50 in UK?

As of right now...top 25 best GB&I

Sandwich
North Berwick
Castle Stuart
Lahinch
TOC
Prestwick
Sunny Old
Gleneagles Kings
Kingsbarns
Ballybunion
St Enodoc
Royal Dornoch
Rye
Formby
St Georges Hill
Walton Heath Old
Co Down
Deal
Elie
Alwoodley
The Island
Cruden Bay
Royal Aberdeen
Renaissance
Woking

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

What's the significance of the indents?

[Niall C]

Jason


In case you were in any doubt the previous post is intended to be humorous. That said, I think there is a bit of truth behind my comment if you substitute "one-time players" for "Americans". They often say that you need to play TOC several times to get to know it, and I think the same is true of what you call "monotonous flat land devoid of interest".


Many links are flattish and don't have the eye candy of others but that doesn't mean the land is devoid of interest. The interest comes from the bounce and the roll, and you will often find that some fairways tend to shed balls one way or the other. First time, and only time round, you might not appreciate that but once you learn that then the ground has bags of interest.


As a matter of interest you and a few others including Ran seem to think highly of 7. If you think about it, 7 is largely made up of the flattish land that you describe but with elevated tee and green. It's all out in front of you. I wonder if that is why visitors list that hole as one of their favourites ?


Niall 

[Jim Hoak]

I'm probably alone, but I rate Troon as the best course to play in that part of Scotland--even above Turnberry.  Turnberry may be objectively a better course, but it is too "Americanized" for my taste.  When in the UK, I prefer courses that are more unique than we get at home.

[Niall Hay]

I'm probably alone, but I rate Troon as the best course to play in that part of Scotland--even above Turnberry.  Turnberry may be objectively a better course, but it is too "Americanized" for my taste.  When in the UK, I prefer courses that are more unique than we get at home.

You're not alone...

[Niall C]

Niall


Why not just give all the Scottish courses you favour 9s & 10s and be done with it 


I hasten to remind folks...that an 8 is something like top 50 in the world.  I haven't seen enough 8s and above to have a steady footing with this sort of world stage talk.  But if I even go to my top 25 best in GB&I, I can't see how Troon fits in.  That said, we can all differ in our opinions.  My #25 is Woking (basically a tie with Renaissance, Royal Aberdeen, Cruden Bay and The Island) which I would give a 7.  Even if I thought Troon was Woking's equal, I couldn't put it in the class of an 8...which would be top 10 GB&I for me. 


Ciao

Sean


It's all about relative ratings. I haven't played enough outside Scotland to talk at all knowledgeably about what should be in the World Top 100 etc. However I have a pretty decent handle on Scottish courses so if Dornoch and TOC are 10's on the Doak scale (which from memory I think they are) then I have to ask myself why not Troon ? I think both of them are terrific courses that I like but any better than Troon ? I don't think so.


As an aside I played Pebble Beach, Spyglass, Pasatiempo amongst others earlier in the year while trying to compare them to links courses is like comparing apples and oranges, I can't honestly say any of those courses was any better or as good as Troon. I thoroughly enjoyed them, and played very well at Pebble Beach, but I struggle to see why a place like that should be miles better than Troon as suggested by the relative Doak values and their meaning.


Niall