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Brad Fleischer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not the real Matt Shafer
« Reply #50 on: June 18, 2016, 12:08:28 AM »
I'll agree, the thread title was a little harsh.  But since the name Matt Shaffer is taken in this business -- the super at Merion spells his name with two f's -- I needed to be clear from the get-go that it was someone different I was talking about.  And, mostly, I wanted to attract the attention of superintendents to this thread, more than the usual crowd.


As usual, John K has it right -- "don't talk to the press," or at least be careful what you say, as we've all learned on this forum at one point or another.  It is harsh to put his name out here in the spotlight of a public forum, but I've been to Lost Dunes a few times since he has worked there, and he has never come up to say hello, so he probably shouldn't have suggested redesigning one of my best greens in public, rather than in private.  I'll change the thread title tomorrow, to hopefully spare him from future Google searches.


Tom


Any particular reason you didn't go up to him to say hello ?  I'm sure you realize that in some circles your a pretty big deal. If you didn't know that I'd be rather shocked . I'll freely admit the first time we met I was a big puss and let my nerves and everything else get the best of me I was even quiet and I'm never quiet and I don't go goo goo for Ga ga over much. Maybe he flat out didn't know how to approach you. Just food for thought  maybe he is a young arrogant a@s that might not regret anything he said to the press but maybe just maybe he's not let the flaming begin.

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not the real Matt Shafer
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2016, 07:26:52 AM »
Most young superintendents prize green speed above all else, and our clients and their staff don't always care what the architect intended.


I walked into Lekarica Golf Shop (Florida) in February and talked to the owner before and after the round. He was a farmer who ended up with the course, originally a Stiles and Van Kleek course designed as "Highland Park". He was a really nice guy and was interested in the history of the course. He had never been inside the gates of nearby Mountain Lake and obviously did not know anything about Seth Raynor.


Timing of recessions allowed Mountain Lake to make it and Highland Park never really got started.


He listened to all my thoughts about the course and at the end, he said in a perfect way - "Buy it and you can do anything you want!"


 :D ;D


Tom Doak,


Maybe it is time for you to buy a golf course?
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not the real Matt Shafer
« Reply #52 on: June 18, 2016, 11:00:19 AM »

I walked into Lekarica Golf Shop (Florida) in February and talked to the owner before and after the round. He was a farmer who ended up with the course, originally a Stiles and Van Kleek course designed as "Highland Park". He was a really nice guy and was interested in the history of the course. He had never been inside the gates of nearby Mountain Lake and obviously did not know anything about Seth Raynor.


Timing of recessions allowed Mountain Lake to make it and Highland Park never really got started.


He listened to all my thoughts about the course and at the end, he said in a perfect way - "Buy it and you can do anything you want!"


Mike,

A few months ago, La Case de Josefina was for sale (the house built for the wife of the gentleman who built Highland Park, Irwin Yarnell).  What an opportunity!!  We could create a GCA B&B with a Stiles and Van Kleek course just waiting to be restored!

Ken

Brian Laurent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not the real Matt Shafer
« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2016, 03:32:30 PM »
Work and kids activities have kept me MIA from GCA for a while, but had a chance to see what's been up the past few weeks and stumbled upon this thread.


Very disappointing to see the comments about this assistant superintendent...especially those in the industry commenting and worst, someone in the industry starting this thread who self-admittedly does not know this assistant and did not take the time to speak with him about his comments. I would think that we would be able to read Matt's comments and notice that several details are missing...


#1 - He didn't make any correlation between green speed or playability when mentioning the green. Could some of the severe undulations in the green be causing other maintenance difficulties? Is his comment based on commentary that they get from their members? There are several reasons why he may want to change the green, none of which may have anything to do with the intent of the architect.


#2 - Matt did not say that he enjoys the challenge of keeping them quick all year round. He said he likes the challenge of getting them fast for a few special events each year. Something else he didn't mention was what speed...just said quick as possible. How do we know that Matt isn't a student of design and knows that as quick as possible for his greens could be 10?


Why wouldn't you look at this interview and say this guy gets it? What I gather from the interview is that he understands that they need to pull them back a bit but members may want them a little quicker.


If you read the full article, you'll see he earned his turf degree from Purdue, has been at Winged Foot, Riviera and a few other notable courses. To be an assistant at Lost Dunes, you need to have your act together.


Then to say that he's no Matt Shaffer...I know the Merion Matt well enough to know that he'd be disgusted by your comments and calling out of this individual.


Many on this site are members, and influential members, at some of the top clubs in the country. Matt Shafer at Lost Dunes obviously has aspirations to move on to the next level. What this thread has insinuated about this young man is that he doesn't get it. I'm pretty sure that couldn't be further from the truth.


It's hard enough for assistants to take the next step and become a head superintendent. A thread like this being started by you, Tom...someone as well respected and that seemingly understands and should appreciate the role of the superintendent...to say that this thread is irresponsible is an understatement. You've questioned a young mans credibility based on nothing more than an assumption.
"You know the two easiest jobs in the world? College basketball coach or golf course superintendent, because everybody knows how to do your job better than you do." - Roy Williams | @brianjlaurent | @OHSuperNetwork

Will Lozier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not the real Matt Shafer
« Reply #54 on: July 05, 2016, 08:15:37 PM »
Very disappointing to see the comments about this assistant superintendent...especially those in the industry commenting and worst, someone in the industry starting this thread who self-admittedly does not know this assistant and did not take the time to speak with him about his comments. I would think that we would be able to read Matt's comments and notice that several details are missing...

#1 - He didn't make any correlation between green speed or playability when mentioning the green. Could some of the severe undulations in the green be causing other maintenance difficulties? Is his comment based on commentary that they get from their members? There are several reasons why he may want to change the green, none of which may have anything to do with the intent of the architect.

#2 - Matt did not say that he enjoys the challenge of keeping them quick all year round. He said he likes the challenge of getting them fast for a few special events each year. Something else he didn't mention was what speed...just said quick as possible. How do we know that Matt isn't a student of design and knows that as quick as possible for his greens could be 10?

Why wouldn't you look at this interview and say this guy gets it? What I gather from the interview is that he understands that they need to pull them back a bit but members may want them a little quicker.

If you read the full article, you'll see he earned his turf degree from Purdue, has been at Winged Foot, Riviera and a few other notable courses. To be an assistant at Lost Dunes, you need to have your act together.

Then to say that he's no Matt Shaffer...I know the Merion Matt well enough to know that he'd be disgusted by your comments and calling out of this individual.

Many on this site are members, and influential members, at some of the top clubs in the country. Matt Shafer at Lost Dunes obviously has aspirations to move on to the next level. What this thread has insinuated about this young man is that he doesn't get it. I'm pretty sure that couldn't be further from the truth.

It's hard enough for assistants to take the next step and become a head superintendent. A thread like this being started by you, Tom...someone as well respected and that seemingly understands and should appreciate the role of the superintendent...to say that this thread is irresponsible is an understatement. You've questioned a young mans credibility based on nothing more than an assumption.


I have to agree with many of Brian's comments as unpopular as that may be here. It is easy to pick apart two answers from a longer interview and make them sound like the worst of GCA - maxing out green speeds and tamer contours are his goal for Lost Dunes. I've never player LD but could it be that his comment on the 4th green is simply based on the fact that it is the ONE green on the course that should not be maintained at his target speed - whether that be based on his perception of what that speed should be or the members'.


My first reaction after Jon posted photos of the 4th was it looks like a fabulous (rather than overly severe) greensite and, there is no way it falls NINE FEET. I thought why would you change anything about it. But, without context - his vision of a redo - it's pretty presumptive to draw any conclusions about his overall theories on GCA. I was also caught up in his goal to reach the highest possible green speeds until I reread his whole answer a few more times, particularly the bit about communicating with members about speeds. I think his views might be a lot closer to the views of many of us than many of us think based on the selective publishing of two answers of a larger interview.


I also think to call him out on not introducing himself to the architect during his visits is a bit immature, especially to use that as reason for starting this thread rather than reaching out to him privately to actually talk about his interview, his answers, his concerns, and perhaps the original intent with that green. Maybe he is a bit socially awkward just like the architect has admitted to being - perhaps you are more alike than you know. Tom, I would think upon a visit to one of your courses, YOU would be the one who should be introducing yourself to the staff, especially the guy who presents your course each day. It seems rather arrogant (and not like your humble self) to think that he should be the one seeking you out on your visit to his workplace.


Cheers

Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not the real Matt Shafer
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2016, 02:07:37 PM »
Tom,

This green? I absolutely thought it was awesome. No need to mess with that.

Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Matt Glore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not the real Matt Shafer
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2016, 03:20:33 PM »
Tom,

This green? I absolutely thought it was awesome. No need to mess with that.



Wow that looks great.  I was at a standstill Monday on I94 West between the Lost Dunes routing thinking about seeing that green one day.  My only scheduled round was rained out. 

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Not the real Matt Shafer
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2016, 05:51:29 PM »
Very disappointing to see the comments about this assistant superintendent...especially those in the industry commenting and worst, someone in the industry starting this thread who self-admittedly does not know this assistant and did not take the time to speak with him about his comments. I would think that we would be able to read Matt's comments and notice that several details are missing...

#1 - He didn't make any correlation between green speed or playability when mentioning the green. Could some of the severe undulations in the green be causing other maintenance difficulties? Is his comment based on commentary that they get from their members? There are several reasons why he may want to change the green, none of which may have anything to do with the intent of the architect.

#2 - Matt did not say that he enjoys the challenge of keeping them quick all year round. He said he likes the challenge of getting them fast for a few special events each year. Something else he didn't mention was what speed...just said quick as possible. How do we know that Matt isn't a student of design and knows that as quick as possible for his greens could be 10?

Why wouldn't you look at this interview and say this guy gets it? What I gather from the interview is that he understands that they need to pull them back a bit but members may want them a little quicker.

If you read the full article, you'll see he earned his turf degree from Purdue, has been at Winged Foot, Riviera and a few other notable courses. To be an assistant at Lost Dunes, you need to have your act together.

Then to say that he's no Matt Shaffer...I know the Merion Matt well enough to know that he'd be disgusted by your comments and calling out of this individual.

Many on this site are members, and influential members, at some of the top clubs in the country. Matt Shafer at Lost Dunes obviously has aspirations to move on to the next level. What this thread has insinuated about this young man is that he doesn't get it. I'm pretty sure that couldn't be further from the truth.

It's hard enough for assistants to take the next step and become a head superintendent. A thread like this being started by you, Tom...someone as well respected and that seemingly understands and should appreciate the role of the superintendent...to say that this thread is irresponsible is an understatement. You've questioned a young mans credibility based on nothing more than an assumption.


I have to agree with many of Brian's comments as unpopular as that may be here. It is easy to pick apart two answers from a longer interview and make them sound like the worst of GCA - maxing out green speeds and tamer contours are his goal for Lost Dunes. I've never player LD but could it be that his comment on the 4th green is simply based on the fact that it is the ONE green on the course that should not be maintained at his target speed - whether that be based on his perception of what that speed should be or the members'.


My first reaction after Jon posted photos of the 4th was it looks like a fabulous (rather than overly severe) greensite and, there is no way it falls NINE FEET. I thought why would you change anything about it. But, without context - his vision of a redo - it's pretty presumptive to draw any conclusions about his overall theories on GCA. I was also caught up in his goal to reach the highest possible green speeds until I reread his whole answer a few more times, particularly the bit about communicating with members about speeds. I think his views might be a lot closer to the views of many of us than many of us think based on the selective publishing of two answers of a larger interview.


I also think to call him out on not introducing himself to the architect during his visits is a bit immature, especially to use that as reason for starting this thread rather than reaching out to him privately to actually talk about his interview, his answers, his concerns, and perhaps the original intent with that green. Maybe he is a bit socially awkward just like the architect has admitted to being - perhaps you are more alike than you know. Tom, I would think upon a visit to one of your courses, YOU would be the one who should be introducing yourself to the staff, especially the guy who presents your course each day. It seems rather arrogant (and not like your humble self) to think that he should be the one seeking you out on your visit to his workplace.


Cheers

 Both very well stated. I think this is a little bit of an architect's ego getting bruised by an opinion that didn't blend with his own. Its disappointing that the architect didn't take a monument to introduce himself to the Assistant. It could have made Matt's day and could have opened up some dialect to architecture and specially why LD was designed like it was. Maybe they both would have a different option on eachother and the 4th green.
  I have played the course several times. I think that 4th green is a little wild, but as long as the green speeds remain fair, there isn't a problem with it, but we all are allowed our opinion.
  If the Assistant praised the 4th green, would the architect have taken the time to write this post?

Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2016, 06:39:11 PM »

I also think to call him out on not introducing himself to the architect during his visits is a bit immature, especially to use that as reason for starting this thread rather than reaching out to him privately to actually talk about his interview, his answers, his concerns, and perhaps the original intent with that green. Maybe he is a bit socially awkward just like the architect has admitted to being - perhaps you are more alike than you know. Tom, I would think upon a visit to one of your courses, YOU would be the one who should be introducing yourself to the staff, especially the guy who presents your course each day. It seems rather arrogant (and not like your humble self) to think that he should be the one seeking you out on your visit to his workplace.



Will:

By now this thread would have properly disappeared from GCA, except for Brian bringing it back up, which is too bad.  I realized my post was harsh and was happy to see it slip away, as I said many posts back, when I also made clear that I harbored no ill will toward the young man.

I haven't had the chance to play Lost Dunes for a couple of years.  When I do go and visit my courses, I generally prefer just to relax and not make it a working visit, though of course many of the superintendents of my courses are personal friends and I do visit with them if they're around.  Otherwise I try not to get in their hair, unless I see something that really bothers me, and likewise, I trust they will come to me if they need to talk about something bothering them.  [That was the context for my comment about his not having introduced himself; I was hardly "calling him out".  One of my former bosses was notorious for getting superintendents fired by making loud comments when he visited courses; for that reason I generally try to stay totally away from any such discussion.]  I have great respect for those who work long hours to take care of our work.

So, I'll take my lumps for making the first post, instead of reaching out privately.  [Although, there seems to be some misunderstanding that I have somehow snubbed him when I was there ... I've never met him, and never heard his name until I read his interview.]   I DO think it was fair to make a general point about superintendents' priorities and green speeds, using a real world example instead of just a stereotype.  I just shouldn't have used his name. 

By the way, just as I made a possibly erroneous assumption about his real beliefs without knowing for sure, you have been quick to defend him without knowing for sure, either.  As an individual, he deserves the benefit of the doubt -- which is why I shouldn't have used his name -- but there are plenty of superintendents in this business who are all about the green speed, and yet the one time I cite what seems to be a specific example, I'm accused of taking it all out of context.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 06:42:08 PM by Tom_Doak »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2016, 09:04:47 PM »
Sounds like you should heed the advice of your old mentor, Pete Dye......never apologize for anything!  And, then, pass that advice on to Matt!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Brian Laurent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2016, 09:36:32 PM »

I also think to call him out on not introducing himself to the architect during his visits is a bit immature, especially to use that as reason for starting this thread rather than reaching out to him privately to actually talk about his interview, his answers, his concerns, and perhaps the original intent with that green. Maybe he is a bit socially awkward just like the architect has admitted to being - perhaps you are more alike than you know. Tom, I would think upon a visit to one of your courses, YOU would be the one who should be introducing yourself to the staff, especially the guy who presents your course each day. It seems rather arrogant (and not like your humble self) to think that he should be the one seeking you out on your visit to his workplace.



Will:

By now this thread would have properly disappeared from GCA, except for Brian bringing it back up, which is too bad.  I realized my post was harsh and was happy to see it slip away, as I said many posts back, when I also made clear that I harbored no ill will toward the young man.

I haven't had the chance to play Lost Dunes for a couple of years.  When I do go and visit my courses, I generally prefer just to relax and not make it a working visit, though of course many of the superintendents of my courses are personal friends and I do visit with them if they're around.  Otherwise I try not to get in their hair, unless I see something that really bothers me, and likewise, I trust they will come to me if they need to talk about something bothering them.  [That was the context for my comment about his not having introduced himself; I was hardly "calling him out".  One of my former bosses was notorious for getting superintendents fired by making loud comments when he visited courses; for that reason I generally try to stay totally away from any such discussion.]  I have great respect for those who work long hours to take care of our work.

So, I'll take my lumps for making the first post, instead of reaching out privately.  [Although, there seems to be some misunderstanding that I have somehow snubbed him when I was there ... I've never met him, and never heard his name until I read his interview.]   I DO think it was fair to make a general point about superintendents' priorities and green speeds, using a real world example instead of just a stereotype.  I just shouldn't have used his name. 

By the way, just as I made a possibly erroneous assumption about his real beliefs without knowing for sure, you have been quick to defend him without knowing for sure, either.  As an individual, he deserves the benefit of the doubt -- which is why I shouldn't have used his name -- but there are plenty of superintendents in this business who are all about the green speed, and yet the one time I cite what seems to be a specific example, I'm accused of taking it all out of context.


It's too bad that I brought this back up?


Pretty sure it was out in a public forum for anyone to find...which I can tell you that SEVERAL superintendents and assistants check on a regular basis. So to think that something like this, where you call out someone who is dedicating their life, likely spending 80 or more hours per week caring for your creation, is going to slip into obscurity is fairly ignorant.


Just like you can slap lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig...you can rename this thread, but it's still a BS thread. What you should have done is ask for it to be removed as there's absolutely nothing of value in the comments on this thread. For a comment like, "he should be shot" to come up is ridiculous. I would expect more out of a group of people that claim to be educated and connoisseurs of this great game.


You can say you harbor no ill will towards him, but the fact of the matter is that you still called him out over an assumption. As previously stated, you have no idea why he wants to make changes to the green.


I can assure you that his comments have absolutely nothing to do with the fact that he doesn't like how it plays. While most supers get into the business because they love the game, when you're in it, the vast majority only have an opportunity to play a handful of times per year. Again, his comments are more than likely based on maintenance concerns and the ability to provide members with the playing conditions that they expect...or based on feedback from the membership. If you'd like...I can call him and ask him about it, like you should have instead of making broad generalizations about superintendents and potentially harming this young man's career.


I do not believe your point about superintendents' priorities are fair or factual at all and really don't see how this is a "real world example." You took a comment about someone that enjoys the challenge of getting their greens as fast as possible for a few events per year and insinuated that all superintendents place value on fast greens over playability. Nowhere in his comments did he mention fast greens as his priority...he did mention that he enjoys the challenge, though.


In all of my experience talking and working with superintendents, I can't think of anyone that would place their priority on pushing their greens to the max. As you know, fast greens come with a lot of risk and significant expense. It's unhealthy for the plant and usually takes multiple mows, rolling and several other cultural practices to keep the greens moving at "championship pace."


The superintendents that I know place their priorities on maintaining a healthy plant and giving their members the conditions that they ask for. Unfortunately, some members push their superintendents to have fast greens because they played XYZ course on the other side of town and their buddy was bragging because they're running 12 on a daily basis.


I don't know the context of the visit where he didn't introduce himself, but based on your comments of wanting to lay low and not get in the way, it's very possible Matt had know idea you were the architect of the golf course. While my comments may be coming off harsh (because they should be); I'm a huge fan of your work, Tom...but to be honest, I'd have absolutely no idea if you were sitting next to me on a plane.


The reason I'm so upset and disappointed by this thread is because things like this cost good people their jobs or hold them back from future opportunities. Somebody could cite the comments made on this thread during an interview process and the poor kid, who is more than likely qualified to make the jump, won't get an opportunity to advance.
"You know the two easiest jobs in the world? College basketball coach or golf course superintendent, because everybody knows how to do your job better than you do." - Roy Williams | @brianjlaurent | @OHSuperNetwork

Ari Marcus

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2016, 10:20:45 PM »
 
I came across this image on Twitter a while back. I think it’s very interesting and shows the evolution of green speeds and speaks to the “generational standards”.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2016, 10:26:05 PM by Ari Marcus »

Kevin Robinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2016, 10:27:02 AM »
I worked at Lost Dunes from 2002-2005 and lived in a house that Jeff has since torn down right behind the 3rd green. Lost Dunes did not get much play back then and there's certainly not much to do in Bridgeman, MI for a young'ish guy, so I played the loop of holes #1-5 perhaps as often as 100 times in three years. I think the green, at reasonable speeds, is nothing short of genius. I cannot tell you how often I had an iron into that green for my second shot but walked away with par or worse due to the characteristics of the green. I've seen and experienced every imaginable combination of recovery shot and/or putt on that green. I've been fortunate to see some great courses...and I've never seen its equal for fun or strategic challenge.


The only "controversy" I was ever privy to was the speed of the FAIRWAYS. The course is built in an old sand quarry, and therefore in the interest of keeping the course as green as possible (and alive), it was continuously being inundated with water - because there was simply no way to keep the course both green AND firm. It drove many of the early members (a couple of whom are semi-regular contributors here on GCA) crazy because the design of the course and the greens demand a firm, fast golf course. I can only remember a period of perhaps 4-5 days where the golf course, for whatever reason, was allowed to be brown'ish, firm, and fast - and I recall it being the most fun experience I've ever had playing golf. It really is a different golf course when allowed to play that way....but I certainly understood why it was always soft.


I'm pretty sure that the only opinions that matter to Jeff about anything regarding the way the golf course is presented at Lost Dunes belong to himself, Steve Jotzat, and Tom Doak.


Richard Hetzel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2016, 08:16:00 AM »
Not to beat a dead horse, but I wonder what young Matt will think of Sand Valley (new course) when he starts working there full time? I'll keep an eye out for the upcoming interview.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2016, 08:19:23 AM by Richard Hetzel »
Best Played So Far This Season:
Crystal Downs CC (MI), The Bridge (NY), Canterbury GC (OH), Lakota Links (CO), Montauk Downs (NY), Sedge Valley (WI)

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2016, 09:11:46 AM »
Sorry, but that horse had to be put down and has been cremated.  In lieu of flowers, the moderator might accept a dollar donation in the amount of par on your favorite course.  :D
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

ward peyronnin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2016, 11:50:06 AM »
The man made the comments in a public forum so he is fair game in my opinion.

His attitude is sadly reflective of Jeff and his only ever original supt and one of the main reasons I am no longer a member of this wonderful golf course and club. It simply became too frustrating to recognize  what Tom's wonderful design called for but to be unable to execute because of the conditioning.

I love the greens and always was able to play them the way I found them. But I can speak to the member frustration when someone like this regards it as fun to futch around with green speeds on greens such as these. Member guests and other events habitually had a practice round speed and then an event speed and this was always a complaint. For the record the fourth hole/ green are a great feature and god forbid an asst supt would put it in the minds of a current regime to alter it.

When you know the course and the owner and the membership I have little doubt that he meant it the way it sounded and I am not inclined to believe there is an interpretation issue possibly in play.
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2016, 01:22:27 PM »
...and there's certainly not much to do in Bridgeman, MI for a young'ish guy....


You were a decade+ too early.  There are now like 10 breweries within 15 miles or so, including a couple of really good ones in Bridgman.

Terry Poley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Assistant Superintendent Thinks My Green Is Too Severe
« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2016, 11:39:06 AM »
After reading the full 17 Q and A in Course Conditions (since I am a member of the Michigan Golf Course Superintendents Association and have access to it), I was also taken aback by some of Matt's remarks: 
  • He graduated from Purdue but likes Notre Dame football and Indiana Basketball!?! 
  • His high school mascot was a Zebra???
  • He has had 5 speeding tickets???
This "Fake" Matt Shaffer must be stopped[size=78%] [/size] :o ;D