Why such little discussion on Black Forest, Diamond Springs, and Pilgrims Run

[BCowan]

and Stoatin Brae


Many on here are DeVries (Kingsley Club) and Tom Doak (The Loop) fans and yet few only play the most hyped courses.  This site is suppose to be for the folks that look for the bootleg of a great concert.   Too many AW's and yuppies?

[Mike_Young]

I don't know anything about them but I will clear this with group think and see if it is ok to discuss...thx

[Mark Pritchett]

I know many people that have played Black Forest (including me).  What should we discuss about it?  Some GCAers are likely still on the ride to the first tee. 

[BCrosby]

Ben - We are all ears.


Bob

[Derek Holland]

I have not played them but would like to!

[Jfaspen]

I really enjoy Black Forest.  I think it sets itself apart from the best of the rest in Gaylord.  Nice elevation changes without being gimicky.  Little if any housing interference. 
From the back tees it is very difficult and demanding, but when I played the normal men's tees it was manageable. 

I haven't played there in 5 or so years, but several holes still stand out in my mind.. I love the 5/4/5 finish.  16 is a nice par 5 that plays around a large lake, normally into the prevailing wind..  17 is a par 4 that comes back downwind with a green tucked into a hill side.. 18 is a very reachable par 5 with a downhill tee shot and more demanding second shot.

Curious to hear what others think, but remembering this course makes me want to get back up there..

Jeff

[JLahrman]

Hoping to try Pilgrims Run in a few weeks...

[John Mayhugh]

Better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

[Peter Pratt]

I love 'em all, though I've played Diamond Springs only one. Just played Pilgrim's Run and was reminded how good it is. A bit unconventional, too, with par 73 (only 3 par 3s, all very good) and the finish with two short and very different par 4s. Black Forest is my favorite of the three, though it's the toughest. The variety of green complexes, even by Doak's standards is wide and fun.

[Tom_Doak]

The construction crew for Black Forest was myself, Gil Hanse and Mike DeVries.  That ought to be worth some interest around here.  I remember that Gil shaped four of the greens, but I am not sure I can remember now which four they were!

[Mike Schott]

It's been at least 10 years since I last played Black Forest so my memory is foggy. However, it's a very tough course, especially the southernmost holes.

[Bill Seitz]

and Stoatin Brae


Many on here are DeVries (Kingsley Club) and Tom Doak (The Loop) fans and yet few only play the most hyped courses.  This site is suppose to be for the folks that look for the bootleg of a great concert.   Too many AW's and yuppies?

I get up to Kingsley maybe five times per year if I'm lucky for a weekend at a time at best, and I always stay on the property.  There are courses in the general area that I'd like to play, including the ones you mention (and Forest Dunes).  I'll get to them someday, but when I'm up there, my options are to drive an hour or more to play a different golf course, or to head out the front door of one of the cottages and walk five minutes to the first tee to play a better golf course.  It's a pretty easy decision.

[BCowan]

The construction crew for Black Forest was myself, Gil Hanse and Mike DeVries.  That ought to be worth some interest around here.  I remember that Gil shaped four of the greens, but I am not sure I can remember now which four they were!

Very interesting. 

[Buck Wolter]

and Stoatin Brae


Many on here are DeVries (Kingsley Club) and Tom Doak (The Loop) fans and yet few only play the most hyped courses.  This site is suppose to be for the folks that look for the bootleg of a great concert.   Too many AW's and yuppies?

I get up to Kingsley maybe five times per year if I'm lucky for a weekend at a time at best, and I always stay on the property.  There are courses in the general area that I'd like to play, including the ones you mention (and Forest Dunes).  I'll get to them someday, but when I'm up there, my options are to drive an hour or more to play a different golf course, or to head out the front door of one of the cottages and walk five minutes to the first tee to play a better golf course.  It's a pretty easy decision.

AW! (I have no idea what that is)

[Ian Mackenzie]

I will be up on Walloon Lake from July 29-Aug 8 if anybody is looking for a game.

[Peter Pallotta]

I will be in the neighborhood late next week and would very much like to play BF, both for the course itself and for comparative reasons, ie because it is one of Tom's early courses. My ONLY concern is the pace of play - some on-line reviews suggest that, because of the price point and the course's popularity, rounds there can take almost 6 hours. Can anyone with experience  confirm or (hopefully) deny?
Thanks

[Garland Bayley]

I played with a gentleman and his wife at Pacific Dunes who told me he was from Michigan and wanted to find out if this highly rated course by Tom beat him up like the ones by Tom in Michigan like Black Forest. Yes, Pacific Dunes beat him up, but he made me look like a good golfer, and his wife also was quite superior to him on the course.


I haven't played Black Forest, but my first post on this website was an attempt to get people to discuss #10 there.

[Chris DeToro]

It's been close to 5 years since I've been to Black Forest, but we didn't have any trouble with pace of play.  Granted we were among the first groups out but there were only a handful of foursomes out there regardless. 


I've played all three and enjoyed all three.  I'd rank them Pilgrim's Run, Black Forest then Diamond Springs.  I found Black Forest to be the most difficult of the three.  Diamond Springs is a great value.  Not sure why they don't get discussed more.  My guess would be that they're all off the beaten path to a certain degree?  Plus that market has been a bit of a boon lately so there are more courses in that area to discuss and may replace a trip to one of those as well

[Jason Lietaer]

It's been a few years since I played Black Forest.  I remember it being memorable, difficult and fun.   When we were out there we had 16 guys ranging from a +2 handicap to about a 40.   Of all the courses we played in the "golf mecca" it was the most memorable almost all the guys.


I remember: the first biarritz style green I'd ever seen in person; a bunch of holes cut straight out of the trees that required courageous swings; some magic around the water at the holes around it that are sorta yin/yang; some crazy climbs in and out of the valleys; the "goal post" trees on a par 5; and severe greens that were a blast.



A little anecdote: When I'm golfing in Gaylord I try to walk everywhere.  Not knowing much about Black Forest I walked into the pro shop and asked what the walking fee was.  The guy running the cash started laughing out loud and called some of the other staff over, essentially pointing at me and loudly telling everyone that I wanted to walk.   He told me it was a mile walk to the first tee and talked me out of it. 


I still want to go back and try it.  I told them I want to go back and take off walking by myself with a one hole head start and try to beat a foursome in carts. 


Has anyone walked it?

[BCowan]

Our very own Mr Jason Way has walked it.  He referred to it as hiking the golf course..

[Bill Seitz]

AW! (I have no idea what that is)

I assume he means access whore.

[Buck Wolter]

AW! (I have no idea what that is)

I assume he means access whore.

I'll call you AP then

[Jason Way]

Has anyone walked it?

I did indeed walk BF.  I got out there early enough to be first off by myself, and other than getting to the first tee and back from the 18th green, the walk was wonderful (albeit challenging).


For those who haven't seen BF, I posted some photos on my blog, along with commentary from Tom:


https://geekedongolf.com/2015/09/07/a-doaky-season/


There is also a thread on here somewhere that I posted. 


I haven't been to Pilgrim's Run yet, but I did play Diamond Springs and loved it.  Crazy good value for the low green fee.

[Chris_Blakely]

If anyone does play Black Forest in the near future, I would love to hear about the conditions.  A friend just played both courses there and said they were quite poor.

[Tim Gallant]

I know many people that have played Black Forest (including me).  What should we discuss about it?  Some GCAers are likely still on the ride to the first tee.

I have never played these courses, or heard of them (except for BF) but that comment made me spit out my coffee in laughter. Thank you Mark!