Interclub Matches

[Brad Treadwell]

Wondering if anyone has any examples of good Interclub match formats?  In this case, it would be 5 clubs against 5 clubs....four players from each club.  Two days of golf.  Match play seems the obvious and preferred way to go.  Anyone out there have any experience with something like this?

Cheers,

Brad

[Ian Mackenzie]

Have played in an event like this for the past several years here in Chicago called the Marshall Field Cup - one of the oldest competitions in the area.


It's between the four founding clubs of the Chicago District Golf Assoc - Glen View, Exmoor, Onwentsia and Midlothian. (All founded between 1895 and 1897.) Played as a one day, 27 hole event with 6-man teams that are usually composed of the best 6 players from each club.


Each team plays three matches with a total of 3 points at stake for each match.


- two points for the two man on man matches
- one point for better ball of pairs


All match play at scratch.


Would love to see alternate shot that you could do on the second day perhaps.

[Charles Lund]

Match play with three points per match (front,  back,  18) or Stableford.

Charles Lund

[Brad Treadwell]

Great point Ian.  For a two day event, four ball day 1 and foursomes day 2 would be very exciting. 

[David_Tepper]

The Northern California Golf Association has been running an inter-club league for 25+ years. The league consists of divisions of 4 teams. Each club plays a home & away match against the other 3 teams in their division. Winners of the divisions play off in a single-elimination tournament for the league championship.

The matches consist of 12 players (six 4-balls) on each team. Players are placed in order of their indexes, from low to high. Play is conducted off of handicaps.

There are 3 matches (2 singles matches and 1 better-ball team match) going on within each 4-ball. The lowest handicaps in each 4-ball play against each other and the higher handicaps play against each other. There is also a better-ball team match.

The format produces some interesting results. I have seen a 4-ball where the two players of team A win their singles matches but together lose the better-ball match to team B. It can happen.

DT

[A.G._Crockett]

Six two man teams, better ball, 3 points per match.  Find some sort of reasonable guideline for handicaps so that players are competing against someone of similar indexes; for example, the combined indexes in the first match can't be above X, and so on.  Consider making the first match the club pro and lowest index member against the same from the other club.

[Jerry Kluger]

The issue with interclubs using handicaps is the method you use to choose the players from your club.  Usually there are more players than spots available and it gets to be who the team captain likes which gets a lot of people pissed off.  We had A team with lowest handicaps then B team would have a combined minimum indexes of 12 for each two man team and so on.   

[Bill Brightly]

Saucon Valley plays two day match play against Winged Foot every year. First day's matches are best ball of partners. Next day are singles with strokes, low handicap v low handicap. Lots of fun, good competition. all matches 3 points, front, back and overall.


Would not recommend this here, just for informational purposes, The (Charles) Banks Cup is played between Essex County CC (NJ,) Hackensack, Rock Spring and Forsgate. Played over one day, 8 guys per club at scratch and best 6 scores count. This format is just for deciding which club has the best players.

[Ed Homsey]

The Travis Cup has been held since 1995 involving clubs in western New York and southern Ontario with Travis courses.  For a period of time, there were five clubs, but now there are four:  Stafford CC, Orchard Park CC, Cherry Hill Club, and Lookout Point CC.  It's a one-day event, with each club sending 16 players.  Match-play is the format, with four-ball and individual matches, primarily.  We developed formats for a 5-club and 4-club event that determine who plays whom each year.   Would be glad share that with you, if you send a PM.

[Josh Stevens]

Don't they play Pennants in the US?

[David_Tepper]

"Don't they play Pennants in the US?"

Josh Stevens -

No, they (we) don't!

The inter-club league run by the NCGA that I mentioned above is probably the closest to the pennant leagues with which you are familiar.

DT

[Josh Stevens]

Why is that?  I am told Australians play much more competitive golf than America but I'm not sure if that is right.

But we have played interclub pennants for over a hundred years down here.  It is a big annual event with untold tour players and major winners having cut their competitive teeth in the club pennants.  I cant think of a single metropolitan club in the country that does not compete. 

As far as format is concerned, it is 7 man (or woman) team match play off scratch. 
http://www.golf.org.au/site/_content/document/00029526-source.pdf

I wonder if it is an access thing.  If you enter a team, then you are required to open your gates and allow all manner of great unwashed in to dig up the course and lay about the clubhouse because you don't get to choose who you play against.  The state golfing body will decide the grades and groups purely on the basis of performance, rather than social standing.

[Josh Stevens]

Or maybe rule this explains why you don't do it much up there

Locomotion
(i) Players, caddies and team managers are not permitted to ride in or on any form of mechanical
locomotion during the play of a hole.

[Craig Disher]

Do four players really represent a club? Maybe, but I'd prefer a larger, more representative sample which moves away from the awkward politics of selecting a small number of players. A classic club match is Rye v The Berkshire - 2 days, 36/day, mostly foursomes, with the losing club supplying the wine for the closing night dinner.  Matches like that bring old friends together and create a history.

[Josh Stevens]

Do four players really represent a club? Maybe, but I'd prefer a larger, more representative sample which moves away from the awkward politics of selecting a small number of players. A classic club match is Rye v The Berkshire - 2 days, 36/day, mostly foursomes, with the losing club supplying the wine for the closing night dinner.  Matches like that bring old friends together and create a history.

Those matches are great, but the problem is that they tend to be between clubs of equal standing and so just propagate elitism.  There is a place for that, but the beauty of pennants is that it completely smashes those barriers, it can be Royal Melbourne against some third tier goat track club from out in the suburbs - status means nothing

[Josh Stevens]

And it isn't just 4 people.  Count all the different grades of men, ladies, colts and veterans, a you could have over 60 members teeing it up each week in inter-club competition. 

[Ian Mackenzie]

Do four players really represent a club? Maybe, but I'd prefer a larger, more representative sample which moves away from the awkward politics of selecting a small number of players. A classic club match is Rye v The Berkshire - 2 days, 36/day, mostly foursomes, with the losing club supplying the wine for the closing night dinner.  Matches like that bring old friends together and create a history.

There is absolutely nothing awkward about looking at your club's handicap sheet and then selecting the lowest ones for a certain type of competition. In our case, it's one that has been running for close to a century.


However, what IS rather bloody awkward is when some "12 hdcp" shoots back-to-back 77s and clinches the prize. Sure, it may be wine, a trophy, bragging rights, etc. But, in the US at least, there needs to be new rules for the GHIN system that is more in-line with the UK system where tournament scores count more.


Sandbagging is becoming extremely common.

[Carl Nichols]

In DC, we have multiple inter-club events.  The DC Metro area has a league that, like the Northern California League, consists of divisions of 4 teams.  Like in NorCal, each club plays a home & away match against the other 3 teams in their division. Winners of the divisions play off in a single-elimination tournament for the league championship.  The difference is in the play.  First, there are no strokes.  (People call it "A" Team.)  Second, while the matches consist of 12 players per side (playing 6 4-balls), the only game is the 4-ball, and each match is worth 3 points--1 point for the front, 1 for the back, and one for the 18.  (There's also a Maryland-only version of "A" Team.)

We also have a smaller group of six clubs that play what's called "B" Team.  As with "A" Team, each match consists of 12 players (playing 6 4-balls), the only game is the 4-ball, and each match is worth 3 points-- again, 1 point for the front, 1 for the back, and one for the 18.  The difference here is that each two-man team has to have a combined index of at least 14.0, and neither player can have an index lower than 5.0 -- but once the teams are set, there are no strokes.  The overall format is a round robin, with each team playing each other team (home & away) once, but the season finishes with a day where all six teams play against one another at the same venue.  The clubs in B Team for the last several years have been Bethesda, Chevy Chase, Columbia, Congressional, Lakewood, and Woodmont.

[Tommy Williamsen]

My club in plays matches with other clubs quite regularly. It is better ball, no strokes. Whoever wins the hole receives one point. Halved holes give both teams one point.

[Jason Topp]

5 clubs seems to make match play a difficult format unless you have multiple matches taking place at the same time or you have a club sit out each round.