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noonan

How well you hit the ball is now secondary to rules violations even if there is no knowledge. A sad day in the world of golf.

noonan

Did she say Bethany Lang?

Daryl David

  • Karma: +0/-0
Yep. Diana strikes again. Is impeachment an option?

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
The only sport that instant replay works is tennis.

Don Hyslop

  • Karma: +0/-0
Don't have an issue with the penalty, she did move a few grains of sand. How the players were informed, however, was not right. Not telling Anna before her third shot but telling Lang before hers changed totally how the hole was played. Either tell both players before the third shot or both after.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 08:28:11 PM by Don Hyslop »
Thompson golf holes were created to look as if they had always been there and were always meant to be there.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
This just in. The USGA is changing their name from USGA to FUBAR.

I thought these people (the USGA on-site staff) were professionals. They handed down the (correct) decision as slowly as humanly possible. They disadvantaged one of the competitors (Nordqvist) by not telling her in an equitable manner to Lang. And the brain-dead president of the FUBAR doesn't even know Lang's first name.

The USGA should be ashamed of itself.

noonan

This just in. The USGA is changing their name from USGA to FUBAR.

I thought these people (the USGA on-site staff) were professionals. They handed down the (correct) decision as slowly as humanly possible. They disadvantaged one of the competitors (Nordqvist) by not telling her in an equitable manner to Lang. And the brain-dead president of the FUBAR doesn't even know Lang's first name.


The USGA should be ashamed of itself.


Post of the year

Craig Sweet

  • Karma: +0/-0
All I can say is we will never know how many champions should not have been, and would not have been, had "Super Slow Mo" existed 15....20...30 years ago. 
No one is above the law. LOCK HIM UP!!!

Peter Pallotta

All I can say is we will never know how many champions should not have been, and would not have been, had "Super Slow Mo" existed 15....20...30 years ago.

What I've seen with all big organizations (whether focused on politics or business or sport) over the last 20 years is the hyper-consolidation of power at the top, in the hands of the very few.

While the leaders in all these organizations all talk off the same script about "employee empowerment" and "breaking down the silos" and "flattening the reporting relationships", what they've actually been doing (and becoming experts at) is ensuring that all key decisions (including, of course, those involving salaries and benefits) are made by a small group of hand-picked cronies and confidantes, all of whom know and play by the rules of this (inside) game.

Let the USGA have all the rules it wants, I say -- but at least (and at least for appearances sake) assign the most seasoned rules officials to the last two groups on Sunday and then empower them to make decisions -- final and binding decisions -- right then and there, on the spot, just as had been the case (before super slow mo etc etc) for over a hundred years.

I understand that "the technology" has changed the dynamics of sports coverage, but what has been happening in USGA events over the last many years (first with the course set ups, and now with the rules) has much less to do with these dynamics and much more to do, IMHO, with a "corporate culture" where the very few control everything and seem more concerned about building their own personal brands than with the ongoing genuine health of the organization.   

Peter     
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:14:01 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think that high def would have shown that Craig Stadler did not kneel on the towel; instead, his superhuman quads and hammies kept him suspended above the cloth by ... precisely the amount of room that Bernhard Langer and Michael Allen (to name just two) now create between their top hands and their chests while putting.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
I bet Warrior fans would tell you NBA officials are much worse than the USGA.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
What this thread tells me is that there is a lobby out there for a real roll back - simplification of the rules.  At some level, that would not bother me.
Suggestions:
1. Call everything from the tee to the green as "through the green". Ground the club anywhere
2. Option of putting with the flagstick in.  Might speed up play
3. Eliminate the Water Hazard (yellow stakes) ... call everything a "Lateral Hazard", 1 shot penalty
4. Eliminate Out of Bounds Penalty ... call that too a "Lateral Hazard", 1 shot penalty
5. Simply & eliminate Ball Dropping options
6. Forbid marking and cleaning ball while in the green. Speed up play.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

noonan

What this thread tells me is that there is a lobby out there for a real roll back - simplification of the rules.  At some level, that would not bother me.
Suggestions:
1. Call everything from the tee to the green as "through the green". Ground the club anywhere
2. Option of putting with the flagstick in.  Might speed up play
3. Eliminate the Water Hazard (yellow stakes) ... call everything a "Lateral Hazard", 1 shot penalty
4. Eliminate Out of Bounds Penalty ... call that too a "Lateral Hazard", 1 shot penalty
5. Simply & eliminate Ball Dropping options
6. Forbid marking and cleaning ball while in the green. Speed up play.
This is a perfect set of rules!

JLahrman

  • Karma: +0/-0
The only sport that instant replay works is tennis.

Sort of. They only have it on the show courts, not the outer courts. So if it 'works', why are only a small number of the matches played using it? Same complaint as we have in golf with only the televised shots being subjected to the super high-def BluRay zoom in shots.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
If given a choice, I'd prefer "ground the club nowhere" to "ground the club anywhere". Too much room for fudging on the later.


I don't have the energy to argue the others, other than to say very smart and thoughtful people like JohnV (sorely missed on here) can always explain the rationale in a manner that convinces me.


But I'm convince-able. Most aren't, in anything.


The Warriors never commit fouls, apparently...
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
It's really time to get rid of the super-close-up camera shots, they are having a detrimental effect on the game.


Using them to determine rules infractions calls into question the results of every tournament ever held over the past 400 years.


Please, get rid of them before they completely ruin the integrity of the game, which has been successfully maintained by the integrity of its players in concert with the rules and not a piece of hardware.


 :P





"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
What this thread tells me is that there is a lobby out there for a real roll back - simplification of the rules.  At some level, that would not bother me.
Suggestions:
1. Call everything from the tee to the green as "through the green". Ground the club anywhere
2. Option of putting with the flagstick in.  Might speed up play
3. Eliminate the Water Hazard (yellow stakes) ... call everything a "Lateral Hazard", 1 shot penalty
4. Eliminate Out of Bounds Penalty ... call that too a "Lateral Hazard", 1 shot penalty
5. Simply & eliminate Ball Dropping options
6. Forbid marking and cleaning ball while in the green. Speed up play.


Good points here.
Not convinced about point No 6 though. Living/playing in a wettish temperate climate you get dirt and mud on the ball pretty easily even during the main season especially with many greens thesedays being soft and over-watered.
 
One I'd add is to permit a drop out of (behind) a bunker if the player wishes but with a 1 stroke penalty.


Atb

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
I agreed 100% with the feeling that the USGA totally mishandled the DJ incident however, in this case, I cannot say that they did something wrong.  My understanding is that the cameraman who was behind her during her bunker shot saw the violation and if you look at that view you can see her club clearly touching the sand on her backswing.  The side slow motion camera shot only shows the touching of the sand but not the grounding as she took the club back.  I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for doing so at that level of competition and it should not have even been a possibility. The timing of the notification to the players could have been better and the announcers clearly expressed their concerns and the only thing wrong there was that it took them so long to do so.  Let's say they knew there was a rules violation and chose not to tell Lang of the violation until after she hit her shot and she hit it in the water.  People would scream that she was entitled to know before she hit the shot. 


I also have to take issue with the posted subject of this thread.  The rules of golf are far less subjective than any of the other mentioned sports.  Football referees are constantly making judgement calls on bunches of rule violations - look at holding calls by linemen or pass interference with a receiver or any of dozens of other penalties.  NBA referees clearly don't call all the violations they see beginning with traveling and palming the ball or offensive fouls, etc.  Baseball umpires call balls and strikes and there is no uniformity in what they do.  So don't compare golf to them.   

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
If the USGA wants the Instant Replay, then fine.  Just roll the close up high speed camera when any player gets close to the possibility of a violation and then give the rules official (let's say) 30 seconds to determine if there is a problem.  Then that 's it, no more time!  No more reviews!  And the matter is decided on that hole.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Andrew Simpson

  • Karma: +0/-0
What this thread tells me is that there is a lobby out there for a real roll back - simplification of the rules.  At some level, that would not bother me.
Suggestions:
1. Call everything from the tee to the green as "through the green". Ground the club anywhere
2. Option of putting with the flagstick in.  Might speed up play
3. Eliminate the Water Hazard (yellow stakes) ... call everything a "Lateral Hazard", 1 shot penalty
4. Eliminate Out of Bounds Penalty ... call that too a "Lateral Hazard", 1 shot penalty
5. Simply & eliminate Ball Dropping options
6. Forbid marking and cleaning ball while in the green. Speed up play.
LOL
It should be remembered that the original set of rules were 10 points long and the reason they have become what they are now is due to players trying to find a way round them.
Speeding up play could be far more easily controlled by setting times not a couple of tiny factors perceived to be part of the problem. They might save a few seconds by not cleaning the ball but the player would still spend minutes trying to read the line and try to compensate for the half gram of earth on the ball.

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