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Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2016, 08:45:51 PM »
Hey Genius, what exactly did you think I meant in my edited post? You called me out for something Einstein, what was it?

I thought it best for her to not have my opinion blasted across the interweb...you obviously have no such tact.
You quickly and openly accused her of cheating. It really is that simple. You have chosen not to soften your stance/assertion. Fair enough.

Internet is a faceless thing.... At times.

Wade Whitehead

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2016, 08:49:33 PM »
Thanks to television, we also know that the final threesome played in 5 hours, 45 minutes today.

Where's that penalty?

WW
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 08:51:08 PM by Wade Whitehead »

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2016, 08:52:48 PM »
Are you drunk?

I edited my post (within 30 seconds) because I realized it was a mistake to accuse her of cheating on a public forum. You type what I edited out and accuse me of "being weak" because if it!?!

My observation was that she was not in the least bit surprised a penalty was called...that triggers an opinion. What are you looking for?

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2016, 08:58:40 PM »
Are you drunk?

I edited my post (within 30 seconds) because I realized it was a mistake to accuse her of cheating on a public forum. You type what I edited out and accuse me of "being weak" because if it!?!

My observation was that she was not in the least bit surprised a penalty was called...that triggers an opinion. What are you looking for?

Jim, I'm sorry but you made a horrific accusation and then conveniently retracted it.

Perhaps you are the one with drink in hand?

Attack away, my bigger issue is with the catastrophe that is the USGA of late.

I've seen 10 year ilds that could comport themselves better than Ma. Murphy.

The whole thing is troubling.... AT BEST.

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2016, 09:02:58 PM »
And you think this conversation you've insisted on somehow cleanses the situation?

BCowan

Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2016, 09:04:27 PM »
Okay, It's sunday fun day!  I'm drinking a Spotted Cow from New Glarus!

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2016, 09:12:47 PM »
And you think this conversation you've insisted on somehow cleanses the situation?

Cleanses? Hmmmm not sure how that posible.

It MAY however focus the light a bit more on:

1. The problem with penalizing ONE situation of perhaps 1000s of similar situations over a week.

2. If possible further highligh the problem within the USGA - how can they continue to trot out Diana Murphy - it is simply sad.

3. Internet guys who wanna condemn a player based on nothing really - you ASSUME she knew. I and many others doubt it possible she knew yet you CHOSE TO STATE UNEQUIVOCALLY - SHW KNEW... Final time - shame on you

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2016, 09:28:47 PM »
Since I haven't seen the ESPN post- mortem as yet, was this another instance of the perported rules mavens calling something in after the fact it was it a clear penalty observed by the walking official and the playing competitor?

Amol Yajnik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2016, 09:42:30 PM »
Since I haven't seen the ESPN post- mortem as yet, was this another instance of the perported rules mavens calling something in after the fact it was it a clear penalty observed by the walking official and the playing competitor?


Quick summary: Anna Nordqvist was in a 3-hole playoff with Brittany Lang.  2nd playoff hole, Nordqvist hits her tee shot into a fairway bunker, then hits that shot over the green.  HD video replay of her shot from the bunker shows that she grazed the sand with her club on her takeaway, she was unaware that she had hit the sand with her club.  So Fox alerts the USGA to the video, and Nordqvist gets assessed a 2-shot penalty while she is standing in the fairway of the final playoff hole, minutes after the viewing audience is aware of the incident.  If the USGA would have stopped play and told Nordqvist of the penalty immediately when they knew about the violation, Nordqvist may have changed her strategy in playing the final hole, which was a par 5 and she was tied with Lang prior to the 2-shot penalty.

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2016, 09:51:11 PM »
So it was HD video review on TV, not the player, not the walking rules official & not the playing competitor, that alerted the Blue Blazers about the penalty ?

There are people on this site that can submit a rules amendment to the Blue Blazer Rules committee to officially sanction video review.

Perhaps that now needs to occur since penalties called after the fact are now the norm for any USGA sanctioned event.

I hope the powers that be in Far Hills actually get how they are truely killing what's left of any momentum the game had to attract the next generation of players.  Can we say WWF !

Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2016, 09:56:15 PM »
So... to everyone who thinks she should have gone unpenalized, would you prefer to end up with a champion that broke a rule and several million people know it?

That cannot happen.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2016, 09:58:06 PM »
So it was HD video review on TV, not the player, not the walking rules official & not the playing competitor, that alerted the Blue Blazers about the penalty ?

There are people on this site that can submit a rules amendment to the Blue Blazer Rules committee to officially sanction video review.

Perhaps that now needs to occur since penalties called after the fact are now the norm for any USGA sanctioned event.

I hope the powers that be in Far Hills actually get how they are truely killing what's left of any momentum the game had to attract the next generation of players.  Can we say WWF !

Exactly - the precise nonsense that will keep people from the game.

Was the right call given the evidence but.... #itsagentlemensgame

Bruce Katona

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2016, 10:08:52 PM »
And Ken Moun:  Diego Maradonna scored the "'hand of God goal"
And England won their only World Cup Because an Assistant referee from Former Soviet Union would not permit GermNy to win because of what occurred at Stalingrad.

THERE IS CURRENTLY NO CUDEO REVIEW IN GOLF! MAKE THE CALL IN REAL TIME OR NOT.  PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION!

Peter Pallotta

Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2016, 10:12:50 PM »
(My post from the other thread, posted again here because I like it)

What I've seen with all big organizations (whether focused on politics or business or sport) over the last 20 years is the hyper-consolidation of power at the top, in the hands of the very few.

While the leaders in all these organizations all talk off the same script about "employee empowerment" and "breaking down the silos" and "flattening the reporting relationships", what they've actually been doing (and becoming experts at) is ensuring that all key decisions (including, of course, those involving salaries and benefits) are made by a small group of hand-picked cronies and confidantes, all of whom know and play by the rules of this (inside) game.

Let the USGA have all the rules it wants, I say, and enforce those rules vigorously -- but at least (and at least for appearances sake) simply assign the most seasoned rules officials to the last two groups on Sunday and then empower them to make decisions -- final and binding decisions -- right then and there, on the spot, just as had been the case (before super slow mo etc etc) for over a hundred years.

I understand that "the technology" has changed the dynamics of sports coverage, but what has been happening in USGA events over the last many years (first with the course set ups, and now with the rules) has much less to do with these dynamics and much more to do, IMHO, with a "corporate culture" where the very few control everything and seem more concerned about building their own personal brands than with the ongoing genuine health of the organization.   

Peter     
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:14:30 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2016, 10:48:35 PM »
According to the Twitter, Fox Sports asked the USGA to look at the video. The USGA had no idea until it was brought to their attention by the channel.
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Ken Moum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2016, 12:04:09 AM »
And Ken Moun:  Diego Maradonna scored the "'hand of God goal"
And England won their only World Cup Because an Assistant referee from Former Soviet Union would not permit GermNy to win because of what occurred at Stalingrad.

THERE IS CURRENTLY NO CUDEO REVIEW IN GOLF! MAKE THE CALL IN REAL TIME OR NOT.  PERIOD END OF DISCUSSION!

So you're willing to have golf become like every other sport. It's not cheating if you don't get caught.

And DO NOT ask me accept any example that includes the slimey, flopping, BS sport that is big time soccer.


Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Mark Kiely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2016, 12:17:48 AM »
Thanks to television, we also know that the final threesome played in 5 hours, 45 minutes today.


Ugh. I wondered what it was when I tuned back in expecting it to be over and they were only on 15.
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mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2016, 12:52:43 AM »
These are far different situations. I have no problem with how today was handled. However, the USGA  doesn't help themselves by not having the guts to put someone who can speak at the podium. Perhaps she is a fine president but someone else needs to present the trophy. Her stage fright reflects poorly on the organization. Perceptions matter.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2016, 06:12:40 AM »
Unless tv review can be applied equally to all players in a competition I don't believe it should be allowed to be used in making any rulings.  Either record every shot of every player or drop the concept of tv review.  I have seen many instances of announcers thinking something was amiss, talking about the situation etc, but with a clear understanding that they are not part of the decision-making process where rules are concerned.  I have no issue with this what so ever.  It happens all the time in sport where spectators know a rule was broken, but the refs missed it.  Its part and parcel of sport.


I am sick of tv influence simply because sport is being slowed down to a crawl and its getting worse.  Soon, there will be no need for on site refs for any sport...it can all be done from a booth in Hoboken, NJ  :P


Ciao
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 06:15:27 AM by Sean_A »
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Jim_Coleman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2016, 07:17:50 AM »
    Why is golf the only sport that allows a ruling to be changed after play has continued?  Every other sport (with the exception of tennis, which technology has solved) allows the game to continue after television later reveals a bad call.
    In golf, the players police themselves unless an official happens to be on the scene or is called onto the scene before play continues.  What's wrong with that?  If a player intentionally violates a rule and gets away it, then shame on him or her, shame on the other players playing along, and shame on the official on the scene who screwed up.  Soccer players takes dives; basketball players take dives; baseball players pretend not to trap balls; football players hold on pretty much every play; and calls are missed in every sport.  If a golfer gets caught cheating, his or her penalty will be on reputation.  And golfing authorities can deal with cheaters after the fact with fines and suspensions.  Football and hockey do that all the time, even when no penalty is called in the game.  And if the violation is inadvertent, that happens in every other sport too.
    Did Norquist know she grounded her club?  We'll never know.  I kind of think she did, not because two grains of sand moved, but because she created a channel in the sand behind her ball when she took her club back.  But who knows?  If she had gone on to win the tournament without being penalized, life would have gone on.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2016, 08:08:39 AM »
    Did Norquist know she grounded her club?  We'll never know.  I kind of think she did, not because two grains of sand moved, but because she created a channel in the sand behind her ball when she took her club back.  But who knows?  If she had gone on to win the tournament without being penalized, life would have gone on.


She did not create a channel in the sand. That was from the ball rolling in. I thought so at first, then realized what it was after the third viewing. I believe that she could not have known. She literally hit one grain of sand, which caused two more to topple over. Put a grain of sand or salt on your body and tell me that I can feel it, and I'll say, I cannot. Put it under a club that is not equipped to sense contact and it would be even more impossible to feel the contact with the sand (I know, I know, I'm shouting.)
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 08:11:50 AM by Ronald Montesano »
Coming in 2024
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~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2016, 08:24:31 AM »
Regrettalby it's beginning to look like it won't be long before the ambulance chasers get involved in deciding who wins, does well or is even DQ'd or not allowed to take part. They are already overly involved in some sports, unfortunately.
Atb

John Sabino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2016, 08:41:22 AM »
Totally agree with Sean, either do it for every player on every shot or don't do it at all. It is inherently unfair the way it is done now. No place for video review in the game.
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Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2016, 08:59:15 AM »
Pretending the sophisticated video equipment that is present at highest-level championship golf doesn't exist doesn't make any sense to me. No one is going to tell FOX not to zoom in on incidents that might carry rules violations with them.


Furthermore, since according to the letter of the Rules Nordqvist committed a violation, the field was protected by the presence of that sophisticated camera. How exactly would it have been better if that violation had gone unnoticed? How is it "inherently unfair" that the penalty earned was ultimately dealt?


Subjecting the entire field to the same kind of visual scrutiny as was on the leaders would be ideal, but it's also a pipe dream. The current system where the players who have a real chance to win the championship are subject to the most scrutiny brings the proceedings closer to fairness than selectively turning the cameras off. I'm pretty sure that the players would take that stronger microscope as an inverse reward for their excellent play every time.


Finally, let's not fool ourselves into thinking there's some causality between what happened at the U.S. Open and what happened in the U.S. Women's Open. The vast majority of U.S. Opens and other big-time golf tournaments have come and gone without any rules weirdness, so even though these two episodes have happened back-to-back, they're still anomalies.
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Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sick of TV influence
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2016, 09:02:04 AM »
Unless tv review can be applied equally to all players in a competition I don't believe it should be allowed to be used in making any rulings.  Either record every shot of every player or drop the concept of tv review.  I have seen many instances of announcers thinking something was amiss, talking about the situation etc, but with a clear understanding that they are not part of the decision-making process where rules are concerned.  I have no issue with this what so ever.  It happens all the time in sport where spectators know a rule was broken, but the refs missed it.  Its part and parcel of sport.


I am sick of tv influence simply because sport is being slowed down to a crawl and its getting worse.  Soon, there will be no need for on site refs for any sport...it can all be done from a booth in Hoboken, NJ  :P


Ciao


+1


Make it an integral part of every shot, for every player on every hole. Or, scrap it entirely.
And if some arm-chair dick head in Donutville, IL or IA or MA calls in a violation, then his name and credentials are viewed for all to see....;-)


Current USGA prez should be given a "window seat" at Golf House overseeing new rules policies so that she can make room for a real executive of any gender.