Castle Stuart Scottish Open 2016

[Terry Lavin]

It looked fabulous on television, that's for sure!

[Niall C]

Sean -

No doubt the upper-level is at its highest at that end of the property. How do you think the transition from 12 green to 13 tee could have been handled better? Maybe with an uphill par-3? 

DT

I think in the old days the archie would probably have taken more holes to climb the elevation, but most likely that area of the property wouldn't have been used.  I can't say 12 and 13 are a success, but I suspect that for the lower holes on the back nine to be used there had to be some penalty to pay in the routing.  It may have even been the case that the lower holes had to be built because 36 and accomodation may have been a possibility from day 1.  In any case, there are more than enough excellent holes to make up for 12 and the climb to 13 tee. 


Ciao

DT

Reversing the routing in part would have meant you would be walking down the hill, but then you might not have had the all important views to suit modern tastes.

Niall

[Jon Wiggett]

Niall,


the height difference to the east of the clubhouse is sizable and even at the clubhouse not insignificant. If they had routed all the lower holes in the same run going westerly then it would have solved the climbing issues but most modern designs seem to prefer to have the sea front holes more spread out in the routing. I have also thought the same thing as DT in that a par three or even short par four might have been a better way to address the issue though I am not sure if this would be possible. I do think it would help if the cut were made wider so that you would see the Moray Firth from the 13th tee as this would help to connect the 12th and 13th a little better than at present.


However on the whole CS is a great course and has been a real boost for the Inverness area.


Jon

[Sean_A]

Are you talking about reversing the routing on the back 9...or the entire course? If on the back 9, certainly views would have been lost and there would still be the problem of a less than desirable huge drop from 13 green to 12 tee. 


Ciao

[Jon Wiggett]

Are you talking about reversing the routing on the back 9...or the entire course? If on the back 9, certainly views would have been lost and there would still be the problem of a less than desirable huge drop from 13 green to 12 tee. 


Ciao

I am not sure that such a drop is really a problem. If you were to reverse just the back nine you would still have a sizable climb back up to the clubhouse. I think you would need an entirely different routing.


Jon

[Sean_A]

The climb back to the house from somewhere in 10 fairway isn't too bad...and its pretty.  The climb to 13 tee is bloody atrocious up an ugly road with a drinsk machine as a layby    I didn't know anything about the course so this situation came as a big shock.  Its interesting that the two modern courses I rate as top 10 GB&I (Kingsbarns is the other) have the two worst transitions of any in my top 25.  These two glaring transitions are main reasons why these two courses aren't among my top 25 favourites.  At least at Kingbarns we are rewarded with a looker in 12 and the cracking 13th.  I don't feel like there was any reward at Castle Stuart...because of course the reward is the holes on the lower level which we already had without knowing there was a big price to pay     With the huge green fee CS charges, in the US a cart would be waiting to wisk players up the hill.  It sounds hokey, but why not?

Ciao

[Andrew Simpson]

"The climb back to the house from somewhere in 10 fairway isn't too bad."
[/size][/color]
[/size]Seriously!? I'd take the walk to the 13th tee over that any day. It's a bigger elevation change and would almost call for a total redesign at the bottom to allow for the 300Yard+ graded walk.[/color]

[Sean_A]

I walked back up that hill after 9 and didn't think it was too bad...remember...the game would be over.  That doesn't mean I want to do it....and, the climb could probably be eased if they moved even 20% of dirt they did on 12/13 


To be clear, I am not advocating any change to the routing...merely commenting that the current routing is far from ideal.


Ciao

[Mike Hendren]

At least at Kingbarns we are rewarded with a looker in 12 and the cracking 13th.  I don't feel like there was any reward at Castle Stuart
Ciao

Sean, do you feel the same way about the climb to the 7th tee at Royal Dornoch and what follows?

Mike

[Andrew Simpson]

I walked back up that hill after 9 and didn't think it was too bad...remember...the game would be over.  That doesn't mean I want to do it....and, the climb could probably be eased if they moved even 20% of dirt they did on 12/13 


To be clear, I am not advocating any change to the routing...merely commenting that the current routing is far from ideal.


Ciao

Once again you've lost me. Where did you walk from to after 9? 10th fairway to the CH?

[Sean_A]

At least at Kingbarns we are rewarded with a looker in 12 and the cracking 13th.  I don't feel like there was any reward at Castle Stuart
Ciao

Sean, do you feel the same way about the climb to the 7th tee at Royal Dornoch and what follows?

Mike

Bogey


The climb to Dornoch's 7th tee is nothing compared to CS. 


[size=78%]Ciao[/size]

[Jon Wiggett]

I walked back up that hill after 9 and didn't think it was too bad...remember...the game would be over.  That doesn't mean I want to do it....and, the climb could probably be eased if they moved even 20% of dirt they did on 12/13 


To be clear, I am not advocating any change to the routing...merely commenting that the current routing is far from ideal.


Ciao

Once again you've lost me. Where did you walk from to after 9? 10th fairway to the CH?

+1

[Niall C]

Are you talking about reversing the routing on the back 9...or the entire course? If on the back 9, certainly views would have been lost and there would still be the problem of a less than desirable huge drop from 13 green to 12 tee. 


Ciao

Sean

Take your pick. The shape of the site is such I think they could easily have done either. If you want to use that lower stretch of lower land at that end then you need to make the transition. Common sense tells you it's easier for players to walk down hill than up. And even then they could perhaps have played down part of it.

Unlike Cruden Bay and it's walk up to the tenth and Dornoch with it's walk up to the seventh, they weren't really forced into that uphill transition at CS. It seems to me it was a conscious decision to stick to the text book hole sin different direction etc etc. So I agree poor routing.

Niall

[Andrew Simpson]

Are you talking about reversing the routing on the back 9...or the entire course? If on the back 9, certainly views would have been lost and there would still be the problem of a less than desirable huge drop from 13 green to 12 tee. 


Ciao

Sean

Take your pick. The shape of the site is such I think they could easily have done either. If you want to use that lower stretch of lower land at that end then you need to make the transition. Common sense tells you it's easier for players to walk down hill than up. And even then they could perhaps have played down part of it.

Unlike Cruden Bay and it's walk up to the tenth and Dornoch with it's walk up to the seventh, they weren't really forced into that uphill transition at CS. It seems to me it was a conscious decision to stick to the text book hole sin different direction etc etc. So I agree poor routing.

Niall

Common sense may well tell its easier to walk down a hill but the Fact is, what goes down must also go back up in a circular route. [size=78%]:-)[/size]