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JWinick

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2016, 11:23:41 PM »


If I get annoyed at people on this board, it's usually when they say there is a one and only or correct way to play golf, go on a golf trip, etc.    i appreciate your kind words, and I agree that there is certainly a trade-off in our ambitious itinerary.   In asking the others, I don't think anyone would have done it differently, since three of the four were on a pretty tight window for days off.   


Because we were so exhausted (I actually had one more tee time at Potmarnock that I canceled), we didn't get to see much of Dublin on the last day, save he botanical gardens on the way to the airport.    But, prior to that, we had two very long meals in Belfast, and had an amazing dinner at a family's home in Dublin.


JWinick

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2016, 11:28:15 PM »
Regarding water, I am simply amazed at how there is just a lack of drinking water on these courses.   I literally drank 4 liters of bottled water yesterday and a Pedialyte before I got somewhat hydrated.   So, I will definitely pick up some bottled water before my rounds next time!

Jon Wiggett

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2016, 05:21:56 AM »
JW,


just one more bit of advice. Make sure that the rental company provides you with proof that the repair work has been carried out which should include documentation evidence with work sheet, invoice and the rental companies notification to its own insurance company that the work has been carried out. These documents should all include the cars identification numbers (plate and serial) and the dates should also be in the correct order (worksheet, invoice, insurance). I also rent cars on a regular basis and it is not unusual to find scratches and dents on the car when you pick it up which are noted on the paperwork. As you will be expected to make good on any damage to the car during your rent including scratches or dents it is therefore reasonable to conclude that the preexisting damage has been charged to a prior customer but has not been repaired. I had the situation of renting the same car for a second time six months after the first time and by sheer coincidence I had the damage report sheet from the last time I picked it up. Many of the scratches and dents were on the first report sheet even though the agent assured me that all damage is repaired before the car is rented out again. This was clearly not the case and they were charging customers for work that was not carried out.


Jon

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2016, 05:57:02 AM »
Regarding water, I am simply amazed at how there is just a lack of drinking water on these courses.   I literally drank 4 liters of bottled water yesterday and a Pedialyte before I got somewhat hydrated.   So, I will definitely pick up some bottled water before my rounds next time!


Thanks for taking the time to relate your tales and I'm delighted you and your friends had a great time.

Re the water. Try considering the members perspective. Why would you want the expense of installing and maintaining water in a cool country where they like to play in less than 3 hrs? Membership of a GB&I Club comes without all the added extra's that help make Golf so expensive in the USA.

(Also: I have a weak bladder and most links course lack comfort rooms or trees to hide behind.  ;))
Let's make GCA grate again!

jeffwarne

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2016, 06:37:00 AM »
Regarding water, I am simply amazed at how there is just a lack of drinking water on these courses.   I literally drank 4 liters of bottled water yesterday and a Pedialyte before I got somewhat hydrated.   So, I will definitely pick up some bottled water before my rounds next time!


Thanks for taking the time to relate your tales and I'm delighted you and your friends had a great time.

Re the water. Try considering the members perspective. Why would you want the expense of installing and maintaining water in a cool country where they like to play in less than 3 hrs? Membership of a GB&I Club comes without all the added extra's that help make Golf so expensive in the USA.

(Also: I have a weak bladder and most links course lack comfort rooms or trees to hide behind.  ;) )


Quite true Tony-to a point and that was certainly my first impression.
I am appalled at the sheer volume of wasted(1/2 empty water bottles) water daily at a high end American courses and wonder when hydration became a national sport and the responsibility of operators to provide water every 100 yards rather than the player taking proper steps in advance-or simply being willing to drink, or better yet fill up, from a fountain.


But.....once members have made the decision to charge high end resort prices to substantially subsidize their own dues, and the decision to tolerate 4 1/2 + hour rounds (from the leadoff spot no less)
it is indeed a slippery slope, and they may need to provide amenities that high $$ green fee payers expect.
A slippery slope indeed, which is why I rarely to be found on such courses when there are so many at 1/5 the price of high quality with an authentic Irish culture and less covered in belt notching tourists. But to each his own and kudos to JW for maximizing his geography seen in Ireland.


As far as those on this board lecturing, that's the nature of posting about a trip on a public forum.
Much useful information could have been gleaned by a search of prior threads, and certainly two threads on the same trip aren't needed.







"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2016, 06:38:30 AM »
Regarding water, I am simply amazed at how there is just a lack of drinking water on these courses.   I literally drank 4 liters of bottled water yesterday and a Pedialyte before I got somewhat hydrated.   So, I will definitely pick up some bottled water before my rounds next time!

Was this your first trip overseas? Struggling to think of any GB&I course I've played that deploys water coolers.

Too bad about having to cancel the tee time at Portmarnock. The one that got away.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

JWinick

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2016, 08:36:42 AM »

Mark,


I could have cared less if it was a fountain or nice bottles of water with the clubs name on it - it would have been nice to have some drinking water.   I don't think the expense would be much.    It was just the complete opposite of what you see on US courses.   I just wondered so that next time i'm better hydrated!


No, we had played Potmarnock already and this was a bonus round right before a flight.  I'm glad we actually slept in and at least had a nice breakfast and saw the botanical gardens (they were amazing).



Regarding water, I am simply amazed at how there is just a lack of drinking water on these courses.   I literally drank 4 liters of bottled water yesterday and a Pedialyte before I got somewhat hydrated.   So, I will definitely pick up some bottled water before my rounds next time!

Was this your first trip overseas? Struggling to think of any GB&I course I've played that deploys water coolers.

Too bad about having to cancel the tee time at Portmarnock. The one that got away.

Keith Grande

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2016, 09:29:27 AM »
I'm surprised you ranked Ballybunnion that low!  We had it as one of our higher-ranked courses in Ireland. 

JWinick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2016, 09:35:42 AM »

There's a lot of weaker holes on Ballybunion and the other courses had very few, if any.   I freely admit that our opinion may be colored by 40-50 mile per hour winds, rain, and hail!   So, i reserve the right to change my mind.

I'm surprised you ranked Ballybunnion that low!  We had it as one of our higher-ranked courses in Ireland.

Carl Nichols

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2016, 09:50:48 AM »

 I have literally rented thousands of cars and have never met a more disreputable car rental company.   



That's one car rental for every week for 20 straight years!

JWinick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2016, 10:57:42 AM »
Forgive me for some puffery!   I think a lack of sleep is to blame!

RJ_Daley

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2016, 12:55:42 PM »
I surely didn't mean to "lecture" if that was directed at me.  I simply drew comparisons of how we all approach such golf trips differently with differing themes and methods.  My hat was tipped to your stamina... or maybe it wasn't me you referred to.

Perhaps one man's lecture is another's point of interest and FYI.   I take the point of potable water and johns available on a course where no trees and club decorum are obstacles to nature calling.  Golf and golf tourism is in many demographics an older aged people's passtime.  Some of us are in deed in need of greater hydration, medication issues that require restrooms, etc. 

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JWinick

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2016, 01:42:21 PM »
Yeah, hydration is a good thing!   Its actually a pretty sensitive topic to me because I've had to go to the emergency room three times for hydration caused by too much time on the golf course and not enough water.   

Dave McCollum

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2016, 07:50:56 PM »
My only trip to Ireland was a combination of driver and drive myself:  the first week with a driver, the second on my own.  Both went well with no problems and played most of same courses Jon did (European Club & Baltray instead of Portmarnock) and about 6 more.  Despite having driven many miles on the left, maybe something like 40K in my lifetime, I was a bit rusty and needed a couple hours to adjust.  Even so, the experience of having a driver (with a comfy Mercedes mini bus) was so good, I'd highly recommend it for our group size of 9 or 10.  The organized part of the trip was perfectly planned with at least 2 nights at every stop.  The travel between stops was a hoot as one in our group was a stand up comic on his game.  Don't remember the driver's name, but he was such a great guy and driver, I would find and use him again.  We each paid slightly more for the driver and van than the rates quoted by Jon for car hire--however, that tab included golf and good hotels as well, so it had to be very reasonable.     

Bill Gayne

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2016, 09:24:18 PM »
I got taken for about $700 out of the Shannon airport from a rental car company. I now always take full insurance and take pictures of all sides of the car with my I phone on picking up the car.

Tim Martin

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2016, 06:04:36 AM »
I got taken for about $700 out of the Shannon airport from a rental car company. I now always take full insurance and take pictures of all sides of the car with my I phone on picking up the car.


We got whacked upon returning one of the cars also in Shannon about a month ago. Sort of discouraging that they find a way to pull your pants down before you leave and that it's not an isolated incident as there are just way too many stories. You have to get the all inclusive insurance or else there is a good chance it will cost you.

Sean_A

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2016, 07:06:48 AM »

There's a lot of weaker holes on Ballybunion and the other courses had very few, if any.   I freely admit that our opinion may be colored by 40-50 mile per hour winds, rain, and hail!   So, i reserve the right to change my mind.

I'm surprised you ranked Ballybunnion that low!  We had it as one of our higher-ranked courses in Ireland.


Could you describe the weak holes at Ballybunion? 


My comment about rookie mistakes was a laugh at all of us because we were all rookies and all made mistakes. 


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2016, 07:15:13 AM »

There's a lot of weaker holes on Ballybunion and the other courses had very few, if any.   I freely admit that our opinion may be colored by 40-50 mile per hour winds, rain, and hail!   So, i reserve the right to change my mind.

I'm surprised you ranked Ballybunnion that low!  We had it as one of our higher-ranked courses in Ireland.


Could you describe the weak holes at Ballybunion? 


My comment about rookie mistakes was a laugh at all of us because we were all rookies and all made mistakes. 


Ciao
I think Ballybunion has a marvelous collection of holes. I would also be interested in where you felt the weak holes were.

Sven Nilsen

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2016, 11:29:39 AM »
Jon:


I was reading some of Mark Parsinnen's comments regarding the design of Castle Stuart, and the parallel to this thread jumped off the page.

Was the design of Castle Stuart influenced by any other course?

There’s a lot of Portrush out there. I think Portrush has some of the best greens in the world for how gracefully they sit in the landscape. Waterville, for example, is the absolute worst. You look at that and every green is independent of the surrounding terrain. It just sits there like someone built it with complete disregard for anything around it. Portrush is so beautiful. A green there will be like a table, and coming into it will be a hollow that works out, but it might be just a completely independent hollow with shape and interest to it. The green will flow into the hollow and the apron cut will be in the hollow. You can intuit that there’s a hollow there because maybe in the dune that comes down to the green there will be a hollow. It’s a reflection of some greater piece of topography. But it’s a bugger of a little thing because if the pin is over by that hollow, and you get in it, you’re not one-putting. These little kinds of features on the edge of the greens are wonderful things.


Would you agree with the thoughts above on Waterville and Portrush?

Sven
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 11:31:11 AM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

David_Tepper

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2016, 11:49:34 AM »
"There’s a lot of Portrush out there."

Sven N. -

It is interesting that Mark Parsinen mentions Portrush as a model for Castle Stuart. I have heard that he used Cruden Bay and Royal Dornoch as inspirations for Castle Stuart. Certainly the "split-level" nature of those two courses is there at Castle Stuart.

DT

P.S. Sven - Did you mean to make your post on this thread? Shouldn't it be on the Castle Stuart thread?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 12:19:31 PM by David_Tepper »

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2016, 12:09:07 PM »
Jon:


I was reading some of Mark Parsinnen's comments regarding the design of Castle Stuart, and the parallel to this thread jumped off the page.

Was the design of Castle Stuart influenced by any other course?

There’s a lot of Portrush out there. I think Portrush has some of the best greens in the world for how gracefully they sit in the landscape. Waterville, for example, is the absolute worst. You look at that and every green is independent of the surrounding terrain. It just sits there like someone built it with complete disregard for anything around it.

Would you agree with the thoughts above on Waterville and Portrush?

Sven

I realise the Question wasn't lobbed at me but couldn't agree more re Waterville.  Not seen CS but at Waterville the width is just there with no discernible effect on strategy and on my two plays I couldn't determine a better side to be on irrespective of whre the pin is. Plus the 18th green there is totally out of character with the rest, in fact it's the only memorable one there.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Sven Nilsen

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #46 on: July 09, 2016, 01:16:11 PM »
David:


I meant it for this thread, but it applies there as well.


Jon's ranking of Waterville above some of the other course's on his trip was an interesting take, one that had me wondering what it was about the course that made it stand out over the likes of Ballybunion, Lahinch and Portrush (I've played BB and LH, but not RP and WV).


I know where Jon plays most of his golf, and I'm curious if there was a bit of a sense of familiarity in what he saw at Waterville.  For a guy that seems to expect very American amenities in his travels abroad, it made sense that the course that was the most similar to his own club (whether consciously or subconsciously) might have a bit of appeal to him.


One of the reasons many of us travel is to discover something new and different.  On my one trip to Ireland I greatly appreciated not only the links turf and the style of play it demanded, but more specifically the gothic feel of RCD, the gentleness of Portmarnock, the quirk of Lahinch and the scale and elevation of the dunes at Ballybunion.  That being said, I can appreciate how the conditions of the day or a sense of the familiar might influence one's thoughts on a particular course. 


Perhaps we can chalk part of it up the perils of the one and done.  I wasn't a big fan of Lawsonia the first time I played it, there were grubs on the tee boxes and the course was soaked.  I've grown to love it on repeated plays.


Sven


« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 01:19:02 PM by Sven Nilsen »
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #47 on: July 09, 2016, 01:26:11 PM »
Tony:


My read on Parsinnen's comments on the greens was that he was discussing how they lay on the land.  He seemingly is saying that the greens at RP are very natural in their settings, while those at Waterville look constructed.


For those that have played on both sides of the pond, are there similarities between the greens at Waterville and parkland courses where the land did not necessarily lend itself to natural green sites and much of the challenge and interest had to be created?


Is this simply a matter of the timing of when each course was built?


Sven



"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #48 on: July 09, 2016, 02:03:48 PM »
Sven, Hackett was known for a minimal based mainly on economics approach to courses and produced Greens which are often flat(ish) at Waterville they're just much larger than he was normally able to afford. If he was used to moving little soil it stands to reason to that in dunesland, large greens receive the work.  Perhaps he'd not had experience creating anything other than difficult to hit greens?  Fazio seems to have continued like that but someone let a Cuckoo into the nest on 18.  The aerial approach dominates.

I was trying to expand on Parsinnen's criticism further.  With links its often the bumps and hollows that influence your choice of approach, you need to think much more carefully about this at RP than WV. This means that at RP a nearly great shot can have a poor result but at WV you'll just end up further from the pin than intended. Parsinnen helped explain to me why I was so disappointed and I've now finished with WV.
Let's make GCA grate again!

JWinick

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Re: One Epic Ireland Trip!
« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2016, 02:47:05 AM »

Sven,


Everyone I've talk to, including everyone on this trip, absolutely loves Waterville.    It was pretty consistently #1 - #3 from all of us.   I have no idea what that individual was saying and perhaps he's just a jealous architect and his opinions should be dismissed.


I can't explain exactly why, I just feel what I feel and observe what I observe.   If you can find someone who doesn't love Waterville, I would love to meet them.    There is nothing unnatural about that golf course.   Probably some anti-Fazio bias that clouds all judgment.


Jon

David:


I meant it for this thread, but it applies there as well.


Jon's ranking of Waterville above some of the other course's on his trip was an interesting take, one that had me wondering what it was about the course that made it stand out over the likes of Ballybunion, Lahinch and Portrush (I've played BB and LH, but not RP and WV).


I know where Jon plays most of his golf, and I'm curious if there was a bit of a sense of familiarity in what he saw at Waterville.  For a guy that seems to expect very American amenities in his travels abroad, it made sense that the course that was the most similar to his own club (whether consciously or subconsciously) might have a bit of appeal to him.


One of the reasons many of us travel is to discover something new and different.  On my one trip to Ireland I greatly appreciated not only the links turf and the style of play it demanded, but more specifically the gothic feel of RCD, the gentleness of Portmarnock, the quirk of Lahinch and the scale and elevation of the dunes at Ballybunion.  That being said, I can appreciate how the conditions of the day or a sense of the familiar might influence one's thoughts on a particular course. 


Perhaps we can chalk part of it up the perils of the one and done.  I wasn't a big fan of Lawsonia the first time I played it, there were grubs on the tee boxes and the course was soaked.  I've grown to love it on repeated plays.


Sven