Reflections on first trip to Bandon

[James Brown]

Just returned from my first trip to Bandon. 


First, some context before getting to lots of thoughts on the courses.  I have been doing one or two 4-5 day golf trips each year since 2007 and have put off Bandon until now because I live on the east coast and have instead travelled mostly to the UK. Now 41 years old, in good shape, 2 handicap, but a hit or miss wind player despite my love of links golf. 


Trip details: In four days, played Bandon, Pacific-Old Mac, Trails, Bandon-Pacific.  Choice between alcohol and Preserve...  Caddies. 


Weather:  Sunny and 70.   25 mph+ and gusty for first three days, 15 mph and much calmer for last day. 


Scoring:  Four rounds in the 80s in high winds and two rounds in the 70s when calmer.  Frankly, about what I expected for the windiest conditions, which were 3-4 clubs at times and the kind of wind that is really loud and draining.  Lots of 3-putts from 50+ feet.


Course Notes:


Bandon:  Definitely the easiest of the 4 courses.  Very balanced in terms of different types of shots and difficulty of holes.   Didn't favor any particular shot shape overall or demand very many make or break shots.   Best way I could describe it would be medium difficulty everywhere.  Everything laid out in front of you.  Holes like 13 and 16 and 17 give you many different options off the tee and into the greens.  The least interesting hole was 18. 


Trails:  The most subtle and varied course in terms of land forms and shot values.  Also the most interesting walk - felt like a nature preserve with a golf course.  Lots of interesting visual deception going on off the tee and into the greens.  No real standout epic holes but every hole was very interesting.  Rewarded shotmaking into the greens and definite advantage for working the ball both ways.  Last five holes are brutal.  I thought 14 was barely fair and very scary from the right side, but I also watched my 25 handicap buddy nearly drive the green.  So I'm ok with that.


Old MacDonald:  Played it in a 35 mph wind with the course to ourselves and the end of the day.  Definitely the most linksy of the four.  Loved the interpretation of the great hole concepts.  The Biaritz was perfect.  The Redan was perfect. Road was perfect. The 7th hole was a truly interesting original idea.  My only real criticism was that several holes are massively subject to the whims of the pin positions, especially when the wind is up.  I also think the Alps hole could benefit from some word on the Alps hill as it looks like what it is, which is moved earth.   Old Mac holds together nicely as an overall piece of land. 


Pacific:  Saved this one for last because there is so much to say.  This course has a lot of emotions going on for me.  Almost every hole is a balance of hope and fear, right from the first tee.  I could tell my caddie was scared to death that I would hit it in certain hazards, like the left hand bunker on #2 or to the right on 13.  For the first 14 holes, every hole has some combination of heaven and hell.  The green complex on 6 is probably little too crowned at the front.   It hit good drives on that hole and had a wedge and it was still scary.  The 13th hole is grand, but the percentage for hitting at the green must be close to zero, as it seems to dictate two careful blows followed by a pitch in any kind of strong wind, which is fine but I wonder if it would more enticing if it were a bit wider around the green or shorter.  Unfortunately, the last four holes are a bit of a let down after the awesomeness of the previous 14.  15 is a fine if benign hole and a nice relief scoring wise.  16 is the same.  My caddie prevailled on my to hit driver each time and I drove it pin high both times, but honestly without much exhilaration.  17 is a very good hole.  18 is also a great hole right up until the green, which I just didn't think was a very good finishing green given the rest of the course.  I would agree that Pacific Dunes is as good or better than Pebble or Pinehurst, but also good deal more varied and quirky.  The only thing I hold against it is the average finish. 


My Doak scale ratings:


Bandon:  8
Trails:  8
Old MacDonald:  7
Pacific:  9


One last aspect:  One thing I did not expect at Bandon was the regularity of the wind direction, which is nearly 100% from the north in the warm months.  One cannot bitch about nature, but I wonder if Bandon would be even better if the wind was moving around.  In fact this might even make for an interesting thread since Bandon might be one of the least random very windy sites around...

[William_G]

best golf resort in the world it be

"No wind no golf"

all the folks who helped create Bandon knew/know of the consistent seasonal winds

Old Mac in particular is interesting in that it has holes that challenge the golfer in all directions with both seasonal winds

will you come back to Bandon or will you continue your Euro gigs and skip Bandon? any word on the greens at Bandon?

Happy 4th from Bandon by the Sea

[James Brown]

I would do Bandon again for sure, possibly as an add-on to a west coast business trip of some kind for a night or two now that I know the courses. 

[Bill_McBride]

Pacific 16 is a hole that needs to be handled with care.  The typical drive down the hill to the right leaves a dangerous pitch to a skinny hard green.  I have seen very good players drive the green or make an X playing ping pong across the green.  18 from the tips is a ball buster. 

[Tom_Doak]

Pacific:   This course has a lot of emotions going on for me.  Almost every hole is a balance of hope and fear, right from the first tee.  I could tell my caddie was scared to death that I would hit it in certain hazards,

This was the part of your reviews I enjoyed the most.  Pacific Dunes does seem to elicit a lot of emotions from visitors ... and that to me is a mark of real quality.

[James Brown]

Pacific:   This course has a lot of emotions going on for me.  Almost every hole is a balance of hope and fear, right from the first tee.  I could tell my caddie was scared to death that I would hit it in certain hazards,

This was the part of your reviews I enjoyed the most.  Pacific Dunes does seem to elicit a lot of emotions from visitors ... and that to me is a mark of real quality.

Couldn't agree more.  The mark of a great course is always made on the emotional level, not just the rational.

[James Brown]

Pacific 16 is a hole that needs to be handled with care.  The typical drive down the hill to the right leaves a dangerous pitch to a skinny hard green.  I have seen very good players drive the green or make an X playing ping pong across the green.  18 from the tips is a ball buster.

Yep. A good caddie talked me into driver twice against my normal instincts and I drove it into the back bunker for a par and short right on a front pin for for an agonizing bogey.  Methinks the play is a layup every time if you are playing only for score. 

[William_G]

Yes the anatomical evaluation

A good nurse can help when the doctor is in doubt for a first play

The short par 4s on the property are not indifferent

16 is a driver every time yet the poa on the green may allow a different play soon

Yet a par can be had from close if you except a 2 putt prior to your second shot

Even if you are playing for score there is best way to play it if you are afraid of short game as the design is Doakabolical

[JLahrman]

Pacific 16 is a hole that needs to be handled with care.  The typical drive down the hill to the right leaves a dangerous pitch to a skinny hard green.  I have seen very good players drive the green or make an X playing ping pong across the green.  18 from the tips is a ball buster.

I've only played Pacific in winter wind which means that 16 is pretty much into the wind.

Every time I've played it, I've hit a megaslice over near/into the 2nd fairway. Bad enough that I've walked to my ball by going around the right of the grove of trees off the right side of the fairway.

I think I've played the hole 4 times and I have absolutely zero idea of what the approach looks like (or what's it's supposed to look like; I suppose I'm still hitting an approach shot).

[Will Lozier]

Unfortunately, the last four holes are a bit of a let down after the awesomeness of the previous 14. 

I don't understand this conclusion at all. Yes, 15 covers the flat ground but it is a hole that definitely requires a lot of thought on all three shots, particularly downwind. 16 is a hole that I think requires more finesse on the approach (from anywhere) than just about any hole on property, including Trails' 14th, and again, especially downwind. 17 is a tough shot that can lull you to sleep given the amount of room and options - one can land it shortish right and run it up or carry it depending on preferred trajectory or simply one's ability to control trajectory. And 18 is a marvelous, tough finishing hole that requires an approach to be landed well short to hold what I think is a supremely natural green and one which I think is totally appropriate for a world class course.

[William_G]

Will,

I agree...

For me, I guess my personality isn't as elastically high and then low.

Who doesn't like 2 par 5's for a finish?

15 has that great nob at the green to play.

Always love challenging 16 with driver.

17 is a version of a Redan...who doesn't like that.

18 is a legitimate par 5 with a wild green and surrounds with a tee shot that is visually stunning.

Psychologically, many feel obliged to offset their highs with lows when the lows are imaginary.

[William_G]

The only other thing on the last 4 holes at Pacific is you lose the ocean views, but that would hardly warrant a real let down from a golfer

[Tom_Doak]

And 18 is a marvelous, tough finishing hole that requires an approach to be landed well short to hold what I think is a supremely natural green and one which I think is totally appropriate for a world class course.

Thank you.  But the 18th was actually one of the more difficult greens on the course to locate and to build.  It took us a while to figure out because the right half of the green is about six feet of fill:  there was a deep hollow behind the guardian mound.  It's not a well loved hole because it is very difficult to get close to any but the far left hole locations, and most people don't like to make 6 to finish, but I do think it's one of the better par-5's I've built.

[James Brown]

And 18 is a marvelous, tough finishing hole that requires an approach to be landed well short to hold what I think is a supremely natural green and one which I think is totally appropriate for a world class course.

Thank you.  But the 18th was actually one of the more difficult greens on the course to locate and to build.  It took us a while to figure out because the right half of the green is about six feet of fill:  there was a deep hollow behind the guardian mound.  It's not a well loved hole because it is very difficult to get close to any but the far left hole locations, and most people don't like to make 6 to finish, but I do think it's one of the better par-5's I've built.

I will be totally shallow and and honest and say that making two sixes in two tries on 18 did not elevate my opinion of the hole cause I was 70-80 yards from the hole both times and got totally beaten by the contour both times.   This green complex struck me as one where if I just dropped half a dozen balls at 80 yards, I would have the feel to play it properly after that.  The upper green on 9 was a very similar shot, as was the approach to 3 on Old Mac.  I like this feature a lot, just not on the last hole. 

[Sean_A]

Who doesn't like 2 par 5's for a finish?

I can't think of a single incidence where I actually liked two par fives in a row, anywhere.  I understand that this may be the best soloution for a routing, but it will rarely be the best idea for the rhythm of a round especially as interesting 5s is the most difficult hole to build. 

Ciao

[David Davis]

Who doesn't like 2 par 5's for a finish?

I can't think of a single incidence where I actually liked two par fives in a row, anywhere.  I understand that this may be the best soloution for a routing, but it will rarely be the best idea for the rhythm of a round especially as interesting 5s is the most difficult hole to build. 

Ciao

Sean, you don't like Birkdale's finish? There are likely several others though that doesn't mean you like them.


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57571.0/wap2.html


Have you made it to Bandon?


I love the finish at Pacific Dunes but it's one of my favorite courses as well.

[Will MacEwen]

Who doesn't like 2 par 5's for a finish?

I can't think of a single incidence where I actually liked two par fives in a row, anywhere.  I understand that this may be the best soloution for a routing, but it will rarely be the best idea for the rhythm of a round especially as interesting 5s is the most difficult hole to build. 

Ciao

These aren't consecutive. 15 and 18.

[Will Lozier]

And 18 is a marvelous, tough finishing hole that requires an approach to be landed well short to hold what I think is a supremely natural green and one which I think is totally appropriate for a world class course.

Thank you.  But the 18th was actually one of the more difficult greens on the course to locate and to build.  It took us a while to figure out because the right half of the green is about six feet of fill:  there was a deep hollow behind the guardian mound.  It's not a well loved hole because it is very difficult to get close to any but the far left hole locations, and most people don't like to make 6 to finish, but I do think it's one of the better par-5's I've built.

Tom,

Did you ever consider leaving more of the natural hollow and filling the area right and back right, making it a bit of a bowl similar to Alwoodley's 3rd? That might have been a cool version as well.

[Jon Cavalier]

Like most of the rest of you, I adore Bandon Dunes (and in particular Pacific Dunes, Old Macdonald and Preserve). And I love reading about people's first trip there - nowhere else evokes the kind of "kid at Christmas" reaction quite like Bandon on a first trip.

After all, how can someone who loves not react viscerally at some of these holes:




Rather than post a slew of individual shots, as I'm tempted to do every time Bandon Dunes comes up, here's a link to a pretty expansive photo tour of Bandon that (in my humble opinion) contains some pretty good photos of the courses, in case anyone is interested: http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60754.0.html

(And one of these days, I'll get around to finishing the Dunes course piece of it).

[Sean_A]

Who doesn't like 2 par 5's for a finish?

I can't think of a single incidence where I actually liked two par fives in a row, anywhere.  I understand that this may be the best soloution for a routing, but it will rarely be the best idea for the rhythm of a round especially as interesting 5s is the most difficult hole to build. 

Ciao

These aren't consecutive. 15 and 18.

Will

Thanks...I read the line as it was written 

David

Nope, I haven't had a strong desire to head for Bandon, though Old Mac is high on my bucket list...though all the courses look terrific.  Besides the ever growing expense of getting there, staying there and playing, Bandon is a long way from where I live and doesn't tie in well with my visits to the US centred around family.  I also have several courses in California very high on my bucket list and figure that would be two trips on its own!   Maybe one day says the lazy traveler.

Ciao

[Ryan Taylor]

Great observations. I echo your love for Pacific Dunes but disagree with your average finish assessment.  I would rank #17 as the best par 3 on the golf course and one of my favorite par 3's in the world. #18 isn't a dramatic finish but is well thought out and very demanding. I wonder if a punchbowl type of green that was set a little lower and to the right would have worked. Your review of Trails is spot on. I would describe it as subtle, sophisticated and a perfect 10 for the "walk in the park" factor. Thanks for the trip report!

[Joe Zucker]

Pacific 16 is a hole that needs to be handled with care.  The typical drive down the hill to the right leaves a dangerous pitch to a skinny hard green.  I have seen very good players drive the green or make an X playing ping pong across the green.  18 from the tips is a ball buster.

Yep. A good caddie talked me into driver twice against my normal instincts and I drove it into the back bunker for a par and short right on a front pin for for an agonizing bogey.  Methinks the play is a layup every time if you are playing only for score.

I agree with this.  I had two trips around Pacific Dunes this past March and the 16th was the most confusing tee shot for me.  Both times I hit driver and left it out to the right, which created a really hard 50 yard shot.  If a longer shot off the tee can be kept to the left, creating an angle, I think that is the play.  But then it brings all that gorse into play.  Creating these options and risks makes is a great hole.  A layup is safe and will guarantee a short iron approach with little to no risk off the tee.


This short Par 4 stands in contrast to the 6th, in my opinion.  I think an aggressive 3 wood or Driver is the play there, rather than a lay up.  Approaching the green from as close as possible has more of an advantage here than on 16 from what  I saw in two rounds.

[Will Lozier]

I agree with this.  I had two trips around Pacific Dunes this past March and the 16th was the most confusing tee shot for me.  Both times I hit driver and left it out to the right, which created a really hard 50 yard shot.  If a longer shot off the tee can be kept to the left, creating an angle, I think that is the play.  But then it brings all that gorse into play.  Creating these options and risks makes is a great hole.  A layup is safe and will guarantee a short iron approach with little to no risk off the tee.

This short Par 4 stands in contrast to the 6th, in my opinion.  I think an aggressive 3 wood or Driver is the play there, rather than a lay up.  Approaching the green from as close as possible has more of an advantage here than on 16 from what  I saw in two rounds.

Joe,


This is generally correct on 16. I would usually recommend my player hit a hybrid or even longish iron off the tee on 16 as a full swing from the correct angle is the best way to hold that innocent looking but VERY hard to hold green (especially downwind). The closer one can hit it to the left side of the fairway, the better chance of having a putt for 3 - thus, there are plenty of options just in choosing to layup which to me is the genius of this hole. Hitting driver brings all kinds of scores into play!


As for the 6th, the best play is indeed to hit driver or 3 wood to set up a chip down the length of the green. To do so, one must hit it over the brow of the hill to a blind landing area usually into a hurting and left to right wind which may require a draw starting it probably 40-50 yards right of the center of the very wide fairway - a shot that seems CRAZY if you don't know the hole. A lesser player (or even a better player in a very strong wind) may not have this option as the right-sided fairway bunkers can be quite penal and offer little chance to hold that green especially having to flirt with the monster greenside bunker which is usually death!


Cheers

[Sven Nilsen]

The last four holes at Pacific have one thing in common, the best line is often well off what your eye is telling you.

[James Brown]

After having a few more days to think about the whole Bandon experience, i had a further thought:

The shot length[/size][size=78%] contrasts between the three modern Bandon seaside courses and my ancient favorites from the UK, were interesting.   I found myself playing a lot of holes at Bandon that either played super long or super short.  I hit a good drive about 250-60 on dry, flat, no wind conditions at home, so not a long hitter by any measure.  16 and Bandon, 9 on Old Mac and 16 on Pacific were all easily drivable for me in reasonable winds, which opens up a lot of options.  4 at Pacific was a drive and a lob wedge.  Every downwind par five was reachable with an iron or hybrid.  On the other hand, Bandon 4 and 11 were barely reachable and Pacific 13 was totally unreachable.  The into the wind par fives were also really, really hard holes.  All fair, but a lot of shots at one end of the spectrum or other.  The greens at Bandon are also much more severe, which is also a refleftion of modernity.  [/size]


 I would contrast this with my experiences at Dornoch, TOC, and Ballybunion, where I pretty much hit every club in the bag each round in any wind.  I certainly put the Bandon loops in the same league of greatness.     I suspect in the 19th century very few people drove greens, but it's just an observation on the changing game and the joys of being able to lay out a modern links course that will appeal to the golfers of today.