Sort of sums up the USGA experience

[Jeff Fortson]

The fact that anyone thinks Anna dragged the club through the sand on her backswing is mind-boggling to me.  Any imprint you are seeing is the path her ball made rolling through the sand before it came to rest, not some trough she made gouging her club through the sand in her backswing.  Her club-head elevates fairly abruptly as she initiates the backswing. If fact, you can actually see the path of smoothed out sand under her club before she even takes it back.  Absolute misinformation to suggest otherwise. 


Here is a link to see the video...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGdJ1Wn698A

a better view from behind shows the trail existed before she started her swing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgrSq5gxHeo

Exactly.  How this is even being debated is bizarre.

[MClutterbuck]

The fact that anyone thinks Anna dragged the club through the sand on her backswing is mind-boggling to me.  Any imprint you are seeing is the path her ball made rolling through the sand before it came to rest, not some trough she made gouging her club through the sand in her backswing.  Her club-head elevates fairly abruptly as she initiates the backswing. If fact, you can actually see the path of smoothed out sand under her club before she even takes it back.  Absolute misinformation to suggest otherwise. 


Here is a link to see the video...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGdJ1Wn698A

a better view from behind shows the trail existed before she started her swing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgrSq5gxHeo

Exactly.  How this is even being debated is bizarre.

You are right, I am wrong. I had seen it only on 1 video and it appeared the imprint was with the club.


However, I still feel this is not a rule that should be changed.


Hi resolution video on some players and not on others yes is something to be looked at.

[Rob Marshall]

If the USGA went away tonite golf would still be fine for 99% of the participants.

If they continue to make rules that penalize a golfer while that golfer is not gaining an advantage then it is too complicated.  DJ gained no advantage.....nor did the lady in the bunker yesterday....It's sort of like asking a police officer who stops you for a rolling stop violation.  If you say you stopped and he says no.Take a quarter and flip it in the air and ask him if he saw it stop when it changed directions.  You either get a ticket or he walks away....but that quarter stopped

While I agree DJ did not gain advantage and the rule should be changed, I completely disagree with the bunker. She is 100% at fault and she should have been more careful and added the penalty herself. I am amazed she did not realize she scraped sand while starting her swing. And I disagree this rule should be changed, where do you put the limit as to how much sand you can move?

How can you see it if it happens below the head of your club? What if your eyes are focused on your ball? What if it happened to Lang in the first round when there is no camera? You can't call a penalty on yourself when you don't know you did it. The video replay has to go. It's not a fair system when a camera is not watching every player, play ever shot. It's supposed to be a game of honor and integrity. The officials are there to help the players with the rules not watch to see if players are breaking the rules.

1. I would assume she feels it. These players have tremendous feeling. 2. She left a clear trail with the club, you dont see that? I dont disagree with the rest of what you say.

The trail was from the BALL rolling in the bunker!

[Mike_Young]

Forget about the trail...look under the hosel of the club from the front view and two grains of sand move....that's what they are talking about.
BUT..forget all of that....it's the USGA that needs to change or go away...we have four pages discussing a minute ball movement and two grains of sand that gave no one an advantage and probalities say it happened many more time during both the men's open and the women's open.  The pompous attitudes need to do their thing and just try and rule the few clubs they deem worthy.  Let the rest of golf do it's thing....

[BCowan]

Forget about the trail...look under the hosel of the club from the front view and two grains of sand move....that's what they are talking about.
BUT..forget all of that....it's the USGA that needs to change or go away...we have four pages discussing a minute ball movement and two grains of sand that gave no one an advantage and probalities say it happened many more time during both the men's open and the women's open.  The pompous attitudes need to do their thing and just try and rule the few clubs they deem worthy.  Let the rest of golf do it's thing....

   We should cover this in next month's news letter 

[Jeff Fortson]

The fact that anyone thinks Anna dragged the club through the sand on her backswing is mind-boggling to me.  Any imprint you are seeing is the path her ball made rolling through the sand before it came to rest, not some trough she made gouging her club through the sand in her backswing.  Her club-head elevates fairly abruptly as she initiates the backswing. If fact, you can actually see the path of smoothed out sand under her club before she even takes it back.  Absolute misinformation to suggest otherwise. 


Here is a link to see the video...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGdJ1Wn698A

a better view from behind shows the trail existed before she started her swing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgrSq5gxHeo

Exactly.  How this is even being debated is bizarre.

You are right, I am wrong. I had seen it only on 1 video and it appeared the imprint was with the club.


However, I still feel this is not a rule that should be changed.


Hi resolution video on some players and not on others yes is something to be looked at.

Sorry if I came off harsh. Like I name dropped on a separate thread, I've been fortunate enough to have spent some time with Anna and her parents. There is no way she'd drag her club through the sand and not call that on herself.  She's a solid, class individual.  I hope that explains my heightened sense of defending her. Glad you took another look and changed your opinion.

[Rob Marshall]

Only an idiot would think she saw that and didn't call it on herself. If her club made the "trail" you would have seen that from the blimp. It was a couple of grains of sand only captured in HD. It's absolutely a joke to use instant replay when the cameras are only focused on a few players.

[Carl Johnson]

Ms. Murphy should be prevented from any leading all trophy ceremonies.


Clumsy beyond belief.  How the heck do people like Murphy ascend to such a lofty position?    (has nothing to do with her gender - the USGA has had male buffoons serving as president too)

Never heard of Ms. Murphy before these two episodes.  She says she's nervous under pressure.  I can understand that.  I'd hope she can take some sort of training to fix the problem.  If not, the best thing for her to do would be to bow out from the awards presentations and let someone more comfortable with that sort of thing take over.  Doesn't mean she's unqualified for her presidential leadership role.  (Now, she may not be qualified, but the public speaking issue doesn't, alone, prove it.)

[Anthony Butler]

Only an idiot would think she saw that and didn't call it on herself. If her club made the "trail" you would have seen that from the blimp. It was a couple of grains of sand only captured in HD. It's absolutely a joke to use instant replay when the cameras are only focused on a few players.

Don't have a huge problem with this... this level of scrutiny is part of what the players accept when a tournament is televised.

In terms of rendering a decision, once you saw the video, this one was a no-brainer... which probably explains how the USGA managed to get it right..

[ward peyronnin]

since this is still alive I include my response to friends who know I was a rules official for a while. cant comment on Ladies situation but it sounds like more in The HD sphere of new ground

Gentlemen,

[/size]I have been to two rules schools, worked as an USGA rules volunteer, and strongly supported the Rules of Golf and their ability to protect the field etc. and the work of the USGA.

[/size]In my opinion your committee overreached when they determined that Mr. Johnson caused his ball to move inserting themselves as divine arbiter in a question of fact.

[/size]Everyone is aware of the exaggerated green speeds you employed in your course setup. Your committee acknowledged  that when they opted to not call a penalty on another competitor earlier. Is it not inconsistent to deem a player moved a ball when your committee has already acknowledged a ball will move on its own on your greens? Johnson has used this practice routine many times without moving his ball. I could envision a ball move when the player treads close to the ball on these freakish greens so would he have moved the ball in that instance?

The most direct source, Mr. Johnson, still believes he did not cause the ball to move yet your committee has tarnished your own champion by refuting him and, to many it seems, compromising his sportsmanship and honor. The player's word is accepted in other situations such as point of entry in a hazard so is it not inconsistent to overrule him in this instance? Ultimately I believe the committee could have accepted that the player was just as unlikely to have moved the ball as to have moved it and the committee could have let the other source closest to the incident, the walking official's, ruling stand.

[/size]Half-hearted apologies regarding how this was subsequently handled will not erase the overwhelming reaction that this was an unnecassarily punitive judgement as opposed to an informed application of a rule; an abuse of power bordering on subtle arrogance.
I have a member renewal notice I will park until I feel that the USGA properly acknowledges the flaws in the committee's actions during their championship.

[JESII]

Good note Ward, well done.

[MClutterbuck]

The fact that anyone thinks Anna dragged the club through the sand on her backswing is mind-boggling to me.  Any imprint you are seeing is the path her ball made rolling through the sand before it came to rest, not some trough she made gouging her club through the sand in her backswing.  Her club-head elevates fairly abruptly as she initiates the backswing. If fact, you can actually see the path of smoothed out sand under her club before she even takes it back.  Absolute misinformation to suggest otherwise. 


Here is a link to see the video...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGdJ1Wn698A

a better view from behind shows the trail existed before she started her swing.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgrSq5gxHeo

Exactly.  How this is even being debated is bizarre.

You are right, I am wrong. I had seen it only on 1 video and it appeared the imprint was with the club.


However, I still feel this is not a rule that should be changed.


Hi resolution video on some players and not on others yes is something to be looked at.

Sorry if I came off harsh. Like I name dropped on a separate thread, I've been fortunate enough to have spent some time with Anna and her parents. There is no way she'd drag her club through the sand and not call that on herself.  She's a solid, class individual.  I hope that explains my heightened sense of defending her. Glad you took another look and changed your opinion.

I deserved it for rushing to judgement based on 1 view of a very short clip that indicated she had dragged her club.