The Evil Empire: The USGA has done NOTHING good for golf in my lifetime.

[Mike_Young]

It seems anytime someone wants to post what the USGA does that is good for the game they mention turfgrass research and green section.  OK I can give them that aspect as their brighter side.  But recently even there it has been a little different.  For example here in the SE they cut the staff in half and they still have a pretty large quota of visits.  I am of the belief that the private consultants will give a club more for their money than the USGA visit at around 2700 bucks per day.  So many clubs use the USGA visit as a way of covering their butts.  A green committee chair will have them in and tell them what he looking for and the report will be written and placed in the file.  A few years down the road if there is a problem then the "now past chair" and the committee can say " hey, the USGA said this is what we should do".  It's more difficult to do this with a private consultant. 
As I've mentioned before it is difficult to get anything but positive comments from anyone who might rely on the USGA in anyway in their professional life.  But I think many realize and question why much of the green section is done the way it is.  There is a lot of money sitting on the side and these guys stay under a difficult quota of clubs to visit and write reports.  And much of the job is to make sure that same club calls you back the next year for another visit.  The other obvious part of the Green Section is the number of "pretty " supts who get on board and get a few ribbons on the jacket and make their own speaking tour. 
In other words, I see nothing the Green Section does that the private sector and the universities would not do on their own....but I'm a contrarian

[Mike Sweeney]

http://www.mgagolf.org

The online version of the edition of MetGolfer is not live yet, but in the June/July 2016 "Executive Desk" by Executive Director Jay Mottola of the Metropolitan Golf Association, he writes a column "Staying Power" which covers the 140 public and 245 private clubs and how they have come through the recession.


Jay Mottola uses "Silo Ridge Field Club" as the only example in the article:


"While Silo Ridge will be an exclusive private club, the fact that owner Mike Feldman and Discovery Land Company - smart money - are investing tens of millions of dollars in golf and in properties here and around the world that focus on family and the fun aspects of the game makes a bold statement about the game and what the keys to success in the future will be."


That is a real quote, and of course there is a 6 page "article" about Silo Ridge in the magazine. Tom Fazio is now credited as the architect.


I have lived in Manhattan for 25+ years so I get what Silo Ridge is doing and who they are targeting. It is not for me, as we are a Special Needs family. In general - not all, private clubs don't work when you have an Autistic son. I am NOT against Silo Ridge in any way.


However, I do have a problem with the Executive Director of the MGA, who are very tied to the USGA, using this as a example of a "bold statement" for the "keys to success".


Silo Ridge was a public course that was never a member of the MGA as it is way north of NYC. (Jim Kennedy can correct me if they were a MGA member club). The MGA is looking at this conversion of converting a public club out of their region and turning it into a private 245 housing unit facility that will mainly be a weekend club for many Manhattan families.


Here in this article, Mottola states:


http://usatodayhss.com/2015/new-economy-different-game-for-local-golf-clubs


“I think if you look at the course closures around the country, many of them were tied at some point to real estate,” Mottola said. “Members who bought houses just weren’t able to sustain the golf courses, and many of them were in areas that were clearly oversupplied.”


I am not even sure how to interpret this other than to say, this is leadership? I am a golfer that learned on the public courses of Philadelphia (Cobbs and Walnut Lane) and Jersey Shore (Avalon GC and Jersey Devil GC) as my Dad did not play golf. I really do love golf, and this is a bad trend if you want to introduce future Mike Sweeney and Eldrick Woods to golf. I personally would like to shrink the game, but not in this way. This is a trend that will shrink the game.....

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,


The Met Section's northern boundary is Rockland Cty.


The "Keys to success" are for the gated community.

[Mike_Young]

Mike,
Interesting article and comments by the executive director but I would not expect more than that.  For him to think all those millions of dollars Discovery Land is investing is for golf is ludicrous.  The golf and any other amenities are there to sell lots.  It cannot make it on it's own and with some of the over the top amenities at those places, a high dues structure is guaranteed especially once all is sold. 

[Jeff_Lewis]

One year anniversary of this thread....time to bring it back.


How much fun is it to see all of these record low scores in US Opens driving the blue jackets crazy.   They let the equipment go, for no reason other than they are scared of being sued by the manufacturers.  Now they get shredded at their beloved majors.  First the flat bellies, now the "experienced" guys.   Love it!

[Jeff_Lewis]

One year anniversary of this thread....time to bring it back.


How much fun is it to see all of these record low scores in US Opens driving the blue jackets crazy.   They let the equipment go, for no reason other than they are scared of being sued by the manufacturers.  Now they get shredded at their beloved majors.  First the flat bellies, now the "experienced" guys.   Love it!


Also love the party line that the low scores are all about the weather.   HA!   We never had wet courses in the last 50 years?

[BCowan]

Low scores are all about the weather. Ask Johnny miller......   

[Mike Wagner]

John K.  Your 100 aspirant won't be picking up if he is a factor in deciding the hole. It's likely that if he were playing well enough to shoot a target score that he wouldn't be picking up. 
And remind me not to play behind your group. 

Does anybody really think that the fitter than fit McIlroy, Day and DJ would hit Jack NIcklaus' 1962 ball with his 1962 club (and 1962 physique) meaningfully further than Jack did?

Niall, I so enjoy a mean-spirited post that ends with "all the best".  IMHO the salutation is an empty gesture. 

I'm starting to remember why I didn't post here for a few years.  Such a lovely environment. 

I guess I should have started with a disclaimer.  If you don't care about pace of play, the game's cost, or its' accessibility don't read any further.

I respectfully disagree regarding pace of play.  Your beef is not with the USGA, it's with Tim Finchem. 

[Carl Rogers]

the proposed rules changes are a good idea.

[Carl Johnson]

the proposed rules changes are a good idea.

And more to the point, did YOU (the GCA world "you", not the personal "you") make your comments on the rules, your contribution, or are you just happy to let the others do the work and then you sit back and b - - - h about it?

[Carl Rogers]

the proposed rules changes are a good idea.

And more to the point, did YOU (the GCA world "you", not the personal "you") make your comments on the rules, your contribution, or are you just happy to let the others do the work and then you sit back and b - - - h about it?

The collective "you" and the personal "you" do overlap.    Thus, I did not deserve the comment.


What "work" would you have all of the "you" do?

[Carl Johnson]

the proposed rules changes are a good idea.

And more to the point, did YOU (the GCA world "you", not the personal "you") make your comments on the rules, your contribution, or are you just happy to let the others do the work and then you sit back and b - - - h about it?

The collective "you" and the personal "you" do overlap.    Thus, I did not deserve the comment.

Carl R., obviously my comment failed to convey my intent and for that I sincerely apologize.  You personally responded to the USGA, as have others.  The comment was not intended to you personally or to anyone else who's sent in their comments -- it was intended to apply only to those who hadn't.  My bad (as the youngsters would say).


What "work" would you have all of the "you" do?

[Erik J. Barzeski]

They lost control of the ball. And our beloved architecture suffers as a result.  They simply needed to make sure the distance standard was calculated based on appropriate clubhead speed.  That was not hard to do. But they were either outsmarted by Titleist or co-opted.   And that failure is a complete and utter disaster.

I disagree.

Who cares where you hold your putter?  For years and years, no player with a long putter won a major.  If it were such an advantage, the majority of players would have used the "illegal" method.  It wasn't.

Their stance wasn't about the advantage, but more about what defines a "stroke." IMO, similar to theirs, anchoring isn't making a stroke.

The rules are insanely complicated.  Yesterday is just the latest example.  The game is HARD.  It really is not fun for a lot of people who try it.   Let's make it more accessible, not less.

See the Modernized Rules.

Handicaps and pace of play. WHY WHY WHY does the USGA make the average golfer think they need to finish golf holes to post a score?  All of this bland messaging about picking up the pace.  THE problem is that most people think they can't post a valid score on a hole unless they finish. Almost everybody who plays golf plays match play.   So, let's make sure they pick their ball up when their partner has control of the hole.  The USGA is blind to this problem which they created by having golfers post every score they shoot. Why are they not working to solve it?

Almost nobody I know plays match play. And you don't have to finish out the hole - you write down your most likely score. This is in the handicapping manual.

When I was a kid, I played the same game I watched on TV.  I hit a 7 iron the same distance as the pros.   Now I hit a 7 iron as far as they hit a wedge. The Ball is out of control.

They swing faster, too. It's not just the ball.

It takes too long. GET PEOPLE TO PICK UP.

Blame Jack Nicklaus. Blame the pre-shot routine and sports psychologists. Blaming the USGA? Why? Most people don't really follow the rules anyway. They roll their ball in the fairway. They don't hit provisionals. Etc.

The ball was engineered to optimize around a faster speed than what was used on the test.

No. Not true.

[Erik J. Barzeski]

Sorry, ignore my comments if you wish. I saw the "June" and that this topic was high in the recently updated posts, and thought it was a fresh conversation, but then saw that the original posts were from June 2016, not June 2017. Sorry.

[Jeff_Lewis]

When did the ODS speed move from 109 to 120? What was the average clubhead speed on the tour at the time they made that change? These guys have been gamed by the manufacturers forever.  I guess you can't say that somebody is gamed if they are essentially a co-conspirator. 


 

[Erik J. Barzeski]

When did the ODS speed move from 109 to 120? What was the average clubhead speed on the tour at the time they made that change? These guys have been gamed by the manufacturers forever.  I guess you can't say that somebody is gamed if they are essentially a co-conspirator.

Respectfully, what's the point in asking when it was moved? The ODS is still in place, and the distance a ball could travel when hit at 109, 120, or anything in between did not change (or increase). They simply moved the ODS to 120 to be more representative of what the PGA Tour players were capable of hitting. There was no "boost" given to higher swing speeds. Moving to 120 was a move to prevent that, too, should that somehow be possible within the laws of physics.

Swing speed has increased in the last 30 years on the PGA Tour. Quite a bit. Drivers are bigger, longer, and lighter. A PGA Tour pro could hit a fresh (you'd need a time machine, maybe?) Pinnacle or Top-Flite from the early 90s pretty far now, too. They played balata because they wanted the control near the greens.

Athletes in every sport get bigger, faster, stronger. Golf is no different.

[Mike Sweeney]

Played over the weekend with some friends and reports are that in addition to Oak Hill, Merion is also doing another renovation of The East and will be shutting down for a year. Both clubs appear to be chasing the US Open, again.


In driving through Merion East yesterday (did not play), there was green side fans on #1 and #2. These are easy to see from the road, so I am not sure about any others on the course. Based on reports, Merion is going to build USGA tip-top greens that are capable of holding USGA US Open speeds. There was a rumor (from friends at other Philly clubs at a wedding that I attended) that #5 green will be altered.





I honestly don't understand this fascination that clubs have with the US Open and USGA.