Go to Lubbock...

[George Pazin]

and play the Rawls Course. Most fun I've had on a golf course.

I'll try to share more thoughts tomorrow when I've recuperated from this past weekend.

Stop by Amarillo & play Don's course, too - don't believe him when he tries to tell you it's a flat simple track. It's a lot of fun, too. I'll try to post more on that later in the week.

[Tom_Doak]

George:  Really?

I wish it had been windy when I was there.  That's what it was designed for.

[A_Clay_Man]

The Rawls course was not just "never having to be more than that". It really was the most thought provoking course I have played.

While some low handcpr's might think some of the pin positions were "unfair", Don made the astute observation that perhaps Doak's justification for these (usually crowned) spots were to defend the course in perpetuity. Since the future advances in techno or other unforseen factors is just that unforseen.

Obsolecence is a fact of life, but there is no reason to have it become so sooner rather than later.

Great course Tom. A must see! A four star course on a three star rating system.

One question, how much forethought went into the long term maintenance costs in maintaining all the turf and the playability of the surrounds?

[Dave_Wilber]

One question, how much forethought went into the long term maintenance costs in maintaining all the turf and the playability of the surrounds?

Adam,

I don't have time at the moment for a lengthy answer (posting from the road and all that...) but I can tell you that we were thinking ahead as much as possible regarding maintenance costs. But with a site that size and the number of acres under some form of maintenance it certainly will always be a challenge to do more with less. There is some economy of scale in larger sites so it isn't like costs double or that sort of thing. And the next phase now that grow-in and opening is past is to allow areas to develop into natural states in a "guided" way.

I'm glad to hear all the good stuff about Tech. Can't say enough about the Superintendent, Eric Johnson. This is his first superintendent's job and he's pulled of a minor miracle getting the place opened in any kind of shape.

[George Pazin]

Dave -

Can you settle a bet made over lunch? 2 posters disagreed over how often Eric waters the greens. One felt it was twice a week max, the other said 4 or 5 times a week. A nice cold one is at stake.

Tom D -

Keep in mind that my most fun comment is tempered by the fact that I'm relatively new to the game & would have trouble filling out a top 50 list, since that's probably about how many courses I've played. Still, tons of fun to be had, even by a hack like me.

While Adam & I cursed the fact that we didn't take pictures, I don't think the contours would have translated well to the two dimensional computer screen, especially since we played on a low contrast overcast day. The course definitely had that crumpled look, feel & playing characteristics. Hard to believe it was completely manufactured - hard to imagine others manufacturing in such a fashion.

[A_Clay_Man]

George makes a great point which leads to the question: Why haven't others, who have decades of experience moving tons of earth, constructed anything like this before?

The bunker style was juice inducing. The steep faces and narrowness made for serious thought. Downhill lies requiring the perfect club selection, not to mention directional choices, tested ones creativity and managment..

[Dave_Wilber]

George....

Straight from the Horse's Mouth.
>>
Wilber: Eric, how often are you watering greens?

Johnson: As little as possible. When the wind is ripping out here, it might be every other day, maybe every day if it is really bad, but when it calms down I don't water much.
>>

Looks like everyone gets a cold beer, you both were right.

remember too, those greens aren't USGA greens-no perched water table. So in their infancy they are apt to be a bit on the dry side.

[RJ_Daley]

Why haven't others, who have decades of experience moving tons of earth, constructed anything like this before?

Could the reason be that old enemy of creativity and forward thinking - conventional golf strategy or wisdom - brought on by widespread PGA coverage, standardized design/construction techniques, and media induced aethetic values of the playing public.

Had I been there, we'd have had our pictures...

[Tim_Weiman]

George Pazin:

Thanks for the report on Lubbock. For more reasons than one, I'd like to see it before too long.

[George Pazin]

Thanks, Dave. Damn, another excuse to hoist a cold one - it's like betting an attractive girl a dinner!

You were sorely missed, Dick - I'd have loved to hear your thoughts.

I'll try to expand on these thoughts later on tonight.

Any oil companies in Lubbock Tim?

[Don_Mahaffey]

George,
I'm glad we had a chance to play some golf. Special thanks for making the time to come to Canyon. Playing with you and Adam was a highlight!

Dave W.
Second your comments about Eric J. The greens were perfect. The fairways were fully turfed, firm and fast. Fast enough that I hit what was thought to be a perfect drive on 18, from the tips, only to find it in the hazard and up but unplayable. BTW, the wind was blowing out of the North at about 30.

Tom D.
Great course. Hard to play on the first trip because fairway position is critical to being able to go at the flag. On 7 I drove it down the left side. Had a 9 iron in, pin was back left, hit it 10 feet short of the flag and ended up 5 yards off the front of the green, 35 yards from the flag! Lou hit it right off the tee and made birdie. I'm guessing that this course will defend par just fine. If the wind had blown any harder, and it does often, the greens would have been close to unplayable given the pin placements we played. On 14 my ball was 2 feet from the flag and ended up off the green. I thought you said you "softened" the greens due to green speed. Was that some kind of inside joke? Those greens are awesome and everyone better bring their short game or they're in for a long day.

[George Pazin]

Okay, I have time to write a little more.

First, some generalities:

Easily the best $35 to walk 18 I've ever spent. Easy walk, too. Tough weather - who the heck thought it could be 50 degrees in Texas in September? Not this Pittsburgher, that's for sure. Don & Lou said winds like we played are pretty common. Seemed like a good 2+ club wind for most of the round, with gusts up to 3 or 4 clubs. I thought 10 & 18 seemed a little out of place with the water, but I guess you need a reservoir & you might as well use it. At least it was used fairly well. It probably doesn't come into play for too many on 10, unless you choose to balloon your tee shot like I did. Tons of room to bail out left, but this makes the second shot super tough, since you're now hitting to a green canting strongly away from you. Apparently the wind we had Thursday morning was opposite the prevailing wind. As I read my yardage guide to refresh my memory, the wind notes are all opposite of our experience.

Some hole specifics:

Fun opener - not a really difficult tee shot or a tough length, but if you don't hit it to the right area, you have your work cut out for you. Neat little skyline green perched atop a hill.

I never saw the fairway on #2, so I can't really say how a normal approach would look. More strong contours on the green. One of us (not me) pitched real close, only to watch the ball keep on rolling past the hole location, well up front. I would think the strategy would change pretty dramatically depending on the hole location and obviously the wind. It was a solid 3 shot hole when we played it, while the yardage guide calls it a short reachable par 5!

Another cool green on #3, perched on a hill. Dramatic slope from back to front, death over the green - unless you're Don. If I recall correctly, he made a great up & down from the back bunker. The bunkering on this hole looks & plays great.

#4 - Another shortish par 4, though I probably am swayed by the downwind way it played for us. Lou was wondering if the ball I was about the hit out of the bunker on the inside of the dogleg was perhaps his, as he had hit it on that line. I said I thought he was well past the bunker, and he was - about 120 yards!! He carried the bunker with a sweet drive that rode the wind & (presumably, we couldn't see it) followed the downhillish meandering fairway to a spot maybe 20-30 yards short of the green. He was then faced with an almost impossible little pitch, since he was a little right of the green and the green slopes strongly right to left & is guarded by a bunker on the right. Not a great reward for a 350 yard drive! Rub of the green at it's best, IMHO. How often do you get to complain you hit a 350 yard drive too far?

I don't remember 5 too well, which is surprising, since I think it was the only fairway I hit all day. Damn that Tom Doak & his narrow penal fairways!! I'm probably the only golfer alive who needs more width than Tom offers.

#6 is a medium length par 3 that dramatically different in different winds. Lou said he hit 8 iron the day before & I think he hit a good 3 or 4 clubs more on Thursday with us. The green must be too tame, however - I was able to hit it in regulation, my only GIR of the day I think. Maybe my only par, too. I wasn't keeping score, I was enjoying the shots.

Don mentioned #7 above. You can't really see how much the fairway opens up to the right, so you don't necessarily know to hit it over there. The green is very severe, with the front third or so being essentially a false front. The open front does allow lower approaches, however - as Don noted, Lou pitched beautifully to about 4 feet by playing it a bit lower.

Cool tee shot on #8. It looks like there is some bunkering that could come in play off the tee to the left of the green, but it turns out to be a series of dramatic greenside bunkers that creep up the last 50 or so yards to the green. You're trying to guess if they're in play & they're 425 yards off the tee! That should tell you how dramactic they are. Another tough hole location made chipping & putting either a chore or a delight, depending on how you looked at it.

#9 seemed to be the most roller coaster hole on the course. Down off the tee, climbing up to a crest about 300 yards off the tee, slightly down from there, & then a last little jaunt uphill to the green. The green is tiny & the bunker greenside right killed me - Adam hadn't fully explained to me what I was doing wrong yet.

Most of the greens on the front had bunkering on only one side, except the par 3s, which were more heavily protected.

[George Pazin]

#10 was a mid length par 3 that played long for me, as it was into a strong wind. I hit what I thought was one of my purer tee shots of the day, only to watch helplessly as it ballooned up up & away & then drifted right into the water. More penal water! Doesn't this guy read any Bobby Jones?!? As I mentioned above, there's plenty of room to bail out left, but the green definitely penalizes you if you choose to play it safe.

I don't remember #11 very well, so someone else is going to have to cover that one. It seemed like one of the tamer holes on the course, but I could be wrong.

#12 was one that left a lasting impression. The last 75 yards or so leading up to the green in the left rough is a really big hill with more powerful bunkering on it. It creates a blind approach if you hit your drive in the middle or left side of the fairway, especially with the hole location on the left, as we played it. Adam & I chuckled at the hole - where's the green? Where's the hole? I'm sure a lot of others might have cursed rather than chuckling.

We stepped onto the 13th tee & Lou informed us that the bunker complex dead center of the fairway gave him some problems the day before into the wind. No problems for him or Don on Thursday - downwind they blew their tee shots 100-150 yards past it. An example of how a one time play might not suffice. Cool green complex, Lou pitched on, Don ran it on and I played on between the two Mae West mounds on the right! They weren't really that high, so maybe I'll have to think of a different star later. Pat will of course claim bias, but they looked pretty neat, too, not formula like modern mounds.

I missed out of 15, too - I played to an area way right (unintentionally) & ended up by the 16th green. The hole might actually play shorter that way, but you'd be playing to a green that slopes strongly right to left, so it would be running away from you.

#16 was some kind of par 3. In yet another example of equipment gone wild, Don hit a 4 iron over the green from the 240 yard tee. Serious downwind at work. Lou said the day before he hit driver into the wind, I think.

#17 was a relatively long par 5 that played even longer into the wind. The layup area is strewn with trouble - a barranca of sorts cuts across the fairway & bunkers litter the layup zone. I couldn't tell you how normal golfers cope with this, as I was playing up the alternate 14th fairway.

As I mentioned earlier, #18 seemed a little out of character for the course, at least to me. The reservoir cuts across the fairway about 200 yards out from the green (in fact, there is a 200 yard marker on the big bridge going across). Downwind brought the reservoir into play for my big hitting playing partners. It also tempted longer hitters with a long shot that all carry to reach the green in 2. Bunkering left of the green made the approach that much tougher. The green seemed a little tamer than most of the others, probably because it wasn't perched on anything.

The look of the course was awesome to me. I haven't been over to the UK or the sandhills of Nebraska, but I would imagine it looks something like this. Perhaps something could be constructed in the flat cornfields of Ohio so I could have a gem like this to play more often....

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Sorry if my posts are too long - I always figure more info is better - you can skim or skip if you so desire.

[Don_Mahaffey]

George, good report.
The day we played would have been heaven on earth for many here. A firm, fast course in 20-30mph winds, 60 degrees tops and even a little sideways drizzle thrown in. As George noted, the wind was opposite the prevailing wind. Usually it blows out of the S-SW, but on this day a cold front was dropping out of the north and the wind came with it. Really not all that uncommon from Oct-April, but a little unusual in Sep. I believe TD has noted that he designed the course with the prevailing wind in mind, so we caught it on a day when some of the normally tougher holes played short. For instance the 14 is a brutal 490 yard par 4 that was a driver, wedge when normally it would be into the wind. The 15th, par 4 450ish, would normally play downwind with bunkers that can be challenged off the tee leaving a short approach. On this day the bunkers were out of play and I couldn't get home with driver, 3 wood.  So we didn't get a chance to play the course as it will play most often and as TD and crew designed it for everyday play.

But here is what I've come away with. This is a course that although long, is all about angles and matching wits with the architect. I mean the fairways are so wide that they lulled me into a false sense of security and I was constantly frustrated by the fact that if I wasn't in the right spot in the fwy, I couldn't get the ball close no matter how well I hit my approach. I think this course may intially be viewed as a bombers paradise, but I think to play well, it's a lot less about length and a lot more about position, and due to the constant wind, trajectory. High, spinning shots is not the ticket on many of these greens due to the slopes. If you like managing your way around a golf course with options galore, this is the place.
I know Lubbock is a little off the beaten track, but for you firm, fast lovers I highly advise a visit to the Rawls course during the colder months. With the bermuda dormant the course is sure to play very fast, but the bent greens will be pure. Lots of good golfing days in the winter here.
Kudos to Doak and all the folks at TT for building something very special.

[George Pazin]

I think this course may intially be viewed as a bombers paradise, but I think to play well, it's a lot less about length and a lot more about position, and due to the constant wind, trajectory. High, spinning shots is not the ticket on many of these greens due to the slopes. If you like managing your way around a golf course with options galore, this is the place.

Sounds kinda like what the Doc & Bobby had in mind at the club formerly known as Augusta National...

If anyone makes the trip to Lubbock, make sure you drive 90 minutes north to see Don, too. I'll try to share our experiences from there later in the week.

[Lou_Duran]

At the outset, let me state that playing golf with George Pazin is an experience by itself.  A guy with a superior perspective and understanding of the enduring values of golf despite being somewhat new to the game is impossible to find.  What a great attitude and uncommon outlook.  It was also a pleasure to join Don Mahaffey, a very fine player, and one of the most knowledgeable and professional in demeanor superintendents whom I've had the pleasure to meet.  BTW, George and Don, the wind always blows in Lubbock, so, by definition, I win the beer bet on the watering issue.  I suspect that unless it is raining, the sprinklers are on nearly every day during the hot season, and quite often during the cold, dessicating winters.

I had the good fortune to play TRC on back-to-back days of 25-35 mph winds blowing from two opposite directions (S, SW and warm the first day, from the N and cold the second).
While the wind was probably blowing a little more than average for the area, it can certainly get much worse.

One of the objectives for the course was that it challenge the collegiate player.  Without hesitation, I believe that this was clearly accomplished, not so much through length alone, but in conjunction with the difficulty of the greens and green complexes.  If these are Doak-lite greens, I can't wait to see the real things!

On the second objective, providing a socialable, enjoyable course for the university community, the jury is still out.  I asked a number of people out on the course and on the parking lot what they thought of TRC and the first words that typically came out of their mouths is how tough it was.  That might be a good thing as difficult courses seem to attract the average player (witness the higher demand for the Scarlet course at Ohio State relative to its kinder and gentler sister, the Grey).   Based on the heavy demand thus far, the course appears to be a smashing success.

In as far as the course, it is playable by all so long as one doesn't focus primarily on scoring.  The narrow but deep bunkers previously alluded to are wonderfully alluring, but one is at the whim of fate on the type of lie and stance which results when they're found.  But because they are narrow, the really off-line shots often are beyond them which creates just another set of problems (the still young bermuda and bahia rough is already formidable, and the small shelfs and nooks on the greens are difficult to hold even from the best of fairway lies).

There are not many forced carries and only a few blind shots from the short grass.  The fairways are generous to say the least, but the force of the wind clearly negates some of this.  If one launches a wounded bird up there, it can travel a couple of time zones.

The course is not without controversial holes.  The 8th is a monster of 476 yards into the prevailing SW wind, with a large, wildly undulating green perched high on the horizon.  #13, going due south, is 460+ yards with a long, narrow sand bunker bisecting the wide fairway some 240 yards out (which I found on the first day and took two to get out).  #14, also going in the same direction, is a par 4 of nearly 500 yards and unreachable by most under typical conditions.  And then, one has to deal with a multitude of undualtions and ridges once the green is reached.  #16 at 235+ yards (close to 260 with a back pin) also goes into the prevailing wind and is closely guarded by a nest of bunkers on the left (only two really, but with little narrow fingers projecting all over the place).  The first day, I hit a low driver to the back of the green leaving me with a 60'+ putt which I luckily got down in two.  With the wind the following day I thinned a 3 iron green-high into a bunker and 3-putted for a 5 after an indifferent sand shot.

For the record I shot scores of 38-45=83 with the SW wind, and 43-43=86 on the last day with a north wind.  I suspect that the course may be easier playing into the north wind if it is not too cold.  I don't recall losing any balls except on #18 on the second day when I hit the "unreachable" irrigation pond off the tee.  We did have to do some ball hunting as the rough and native areas do come into play.  The management will have to address some pace of play concerns, which are probably controllable once the course matures and carts are allowed off the paths.  I do look forward to seeing the course in a couple of years when it is really firm and fast (the sup. is probably having to put down more water than normal to grow-in the course).  Also, in 10 years, the trees in the periphery may soften the wind in certain places, and those on the course will have a bigger impact on shot selection.  

Finally, TRC has a fantastic practice facility.  The golf teams have their own exclusive areas including a three station indoor-to-outdoor building, a humongous sand bunker, and a practice green.  There is also a 2 or 3 hole practice facility, though I did not see it.  From a collegiate golf recruiting standpoint, Texas Tech has a tremendous home course advantage.  While the student fees may be a little high for my taste ($27+ per round; $700 for a semester pass), this is coming from a guy who paid $80 - $100 for an annual pass at Ohio State ages ago.  In comparison to the other OSU's Karsten Creek ($200+ per round) and the new U. of Texas course, TRC is a great bargain.

Tom Doak remains one of my gca heroes, though I still take issue with him on his evaluation of the Scarlet course in his "Confidential Guide".  Kudos also to Jim Urbina and the "crew".  The course appears to be in the excellent hands of Eric Johnson and Leon van Rensburg.  I recommend it highly to anyone travelling in this direction.  Lubbock has easy 737 jet service through SWA, and is well worth the extra effort to get there.


 

[Dave_Wilber]

Lou,

Good post and it is great that you enjoyed the place..but your "assumptions" about watering aren't correct. As time goes on and soils there mature, water won't be a crutch...and we'll do everything we can to keep it from being a crutch while the soils are coming into their own.

Can't go into the details, but if that ground got handled like the usual grow-in with the usual fertilization and watering techniques, then I think we'd all be here 3-5 years from now talking about what is wrong. We hope to stand in the gap against that happening.

[A_Clay_Man]

Dave Wilber- Do I recall Don Mahaffey mentioning that the water quality is an issue there? And if it is, then the less the better, no?

Was it the seventh hole with the blind green and horseshoe shaped bunker? I felt this hole was probably the most unique to American golf, and from my spot in the hillocks(berm) right, is when I really got that Scottish feel that I've never felt for real.

[les_claytor]

I hope to make it up there in the next couple of weeks from Dallas.  Sounds like a destination track.  I'll take plenty of pics!