WTF is the USGA doing to screw up this great Open?

[Rich Goodale]

Rules mavens, please explain to me why DJ and the rest of the field has to play the back 9 under a cloud of uncertainty.

[John Kavanaugh]

At least we can't hang any of em.

[Mike Sweeney]

Once again, too many rules, too many lawyers at USGA.


Make a decision and live with it.... Happens in every other sport...


The USGA has already influenced the outcome.

[Rich Goodale]

At least we can't hang any of em.

Why not?

[John Kavanaugh]

No trees.

[jeffwarne]

sad


absolutely sad


still time to fix this for the boneheads

[Mike Sweeney]

No trees.

That was funny.


Maybe they have a green side fan in the Super's office to use instead.

[Rich Goodale]

No trees.

Brilliant, Barney!  I owe you a beer next time we meet.

[Jim Adkisson]

DJ knows that he will be assessed the penalty...Decision 18-2/0.5 States that if the weight of evidence indicates that it is more than likely that the player caused the ball to move that the penalty must be assessed.

specifically he had grounded his club close to his ball after his practice strokes and then his ball moved immediately as he had removed his putter from the surface of the green to address the ball...

unfortunately the penalty cannot be assessed without discussion and review of the TV tape in scoring at the end of the round

[Joe Hancock]

DJ knows that he will be assessed the penalty...Decision 18-2/0.5 States that if the weight of evidence indicates that it is more than likely that the player caused the ball to move that the penalty must be assessed.

specifically he had grounded his club close to his ball after his practice strokes and then his ball moved immediately as he had removed his putter from the surface of the green to address the ball...

unfortunately the penalty cannot be assessed without discussion and review of the TV tape in scoring at the end of the round

Why didn't the USGA Rules Official they had in the booth tell DJ that?

[jeffwarne]

DJ knows that he will be assessed the penalty...Decision 18-2/0.5 States that if the weight of evidence indicates that it is more than likely that the player caused the ball to move that the penalty must be assessed.

specifically he had grounded his club close to his ball after his practice strokes and then his ball moved immediately as he had removed his putter from the surface of the green to address the ball...

unfortunately the penalty cannot be assessed without discussion and review of the TV tape in scoring at the end of the round

Why didn't the USGA Rules Official they had in the booth tell DJ that?

he was too busy commenting on green speed

[Jim Adkisson]

Why didn't the USGA Rules Official they had in the booth tell DJ that?

If I was the walking official with the group I would have asked DJ some specific questions regarding his actions immediately prior to the ball moving...that is regrettable...

But rule interpretations from outside observations after the play has moved on should be worked through in scoring after the round.

[Rich Goodale]

So, Jim A....


.....if I ground my club and take some practice swings a yard or two away from the ball, and then lift my club and the ball moves a yard or two away, I am causing the ball to move?  What if I am taking those practice swings a few inches from the ball?  Are the Rules officials at the USGA Physics graduates?  I'm married to a Physics graduate and she thinks that the USGA officials are idiots.  I agree with her.


Rich

[Joe Hancock]

I'm all for a player being penalized if he moves the ball at address on the green by touching it with the putter, but on greens....greens this fast.....absolutely stupid to have a rule such as this in golf when it can go wrong so fast.

For the good of the game indeed.

[Jim Adkisson]

So, Jim A....


.....if I ground my club and take some practice swings a yard or two away from the ball, and then lift my club and the ball moves a yard or two away, I am causing the ball to move?  What if I am taking those practice swings a few inches from the ball?  Are the Rules officials at the USGA Physics graduates?  I'm married to a Physics graduate and she thinks that the USGA officials are idiots.  I agree with her.


Rich

Rich, if you can look at decision 18-2/0.5 it is a rather long decision for me to type out...this one decision took approximately an hour for Craig Winters of USGA rules to explain at recent USGA/PGA Rules class in Tacoma...

all evidence should be reviewed and if weight of evidence is that it is more than likely that the player caused the ball to move than the penalty must be assessed...if you take your practice strokes away from the ball, the weight of evidence would not suggest that the player caused the ball to move...

But in this case the video shows that his actions "more than likely" caused his ball to move...

I hope DJ leads by 2 prior to entering the scoring tent to talk to Craig Winters

[Joe Hancock]

But in this case the video shows that his actions "more than likely" caused his ball to move...

I disagree. There was space between his putter and the ball, both to the side, and behind.

If no contact, then it's just speculation as to what caused the ball to move.

[Rich Goodale]

Agree with you, Joe, and not with Jim, but regardless we are seeing the most ugly underside of our great game at one of our greatest venues and with some of our greatest players.  I love golf and have been playing it for over 60 years, but the more I watch the end of this Open the more I wish to puke.....

[Jamey Bryan]

But in this case the video shows that his actions "more than likely" caused his ball to move...

I disagree. There was space between his putter and the ball, both to the side, and behind.

If no contact, then it's just speculation as to what caused the ball to move.

I also disagree.  There was no contact, and there was significant time between the practice strokes and the ball moving.  I think the final discussion in the relevant decision is relevant:

"A player's ball lies on an upslope in a closely-mown area. He makes a practice swing, but does so some distance from the ball as he is concerned that the ball may move. He carefully takes his stance but does not ground his club. Prior to making his backswing for the stroke, the ball moves. As the ball did not move while the player made the practice swing or took his stance, it is more likely than not that other factors (i.e., the ball's lie on an upslope) caused the ball to move. (New)"

Jamey

[jeffwarne]

 the more I watch the end of this Open the more I wish to puke.....

Who knew that when the USGA finally played a course with grass that the grass would be the problem

[Jim Adkisson]

Joe, I respect your opinion that you don't think that he touched the ball with the toe of his putter when he picked it up from immediately next to his ball, but the rule is that if the evidence is "more than likely" that his actions caused the ball at rest to move then the penalty must be assessed....its in the text of Decision 18-2/0.5

[Tom Walsh]

"I hope DJ leads by 2 prior to entering the scoring tent to talk to Craig Winters"

the USGA should get no pass on this

[Mike Sweeney]

Joe, I respect your opinion that you don't think that he touched the ball with the toe of his putter when he picked it up from immediately next to his ball, but the rule is that if the evidence is "more than likely" that his actions caused the ball at rest to move then the penalty must be assessed....its in the text of Decision 18-2/0.5

Irrelevant.


As per my post on the other thread, 33-2-d gives The Committee that ability to suspend play for "any reason". Suspend play, make the ruling, and continue on. This is a joke how this is being contested. My wife has maybe picked up 3 golf clubs in 23 years of marriage, and she said, "That changes all the strategy...."

[Mike Sweeney]

"I hope DJ leads by 2 prior to entering the scoring tent to talk to Craig Winters"

the USGA should get no pass on this

I hope DJ birdies 18 and wins by 4 so his win is less controversial.


I agree that the USGA destroyed this championship and they should not get a pass.

[Donovan Childers]

I just want to know how the rule change about the limited use of HD  and slo motion replay comes into play here. Not visible to the naked eye, Tiger Rule.

[Mike Sweeney]

Pretty consistent response from top players already:


http://thebiglead.com/2016/06/19/rory-mcilroy-slams-usga-for-mentioning-possible-penalty-to-dustin-johnson-during-round/