Two Bunkers - Compare and Contrast

[Mike Hendren]

Scroll right:

[John Crowley]

"Natural" vs contrived.

[Sean_A]

Bogey...there is no question the scar bunker is more attractive not only in its messy appearance but in utilizing a natural pocket....but where does the hazard end?  I guess the simple thing is to not call it a hazard...thats not an issue for me.


Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

I was wondering is the 'scar bunker' as Sean terms it, actually a 'bunker/hazard' and how does that relate to grounding the club, takng a drop etc? Scruffy, sandy area or a formal hazard?


Nice course in the first photo by the way, especially the par-5 16th hole.


Atb

[Mike Hendren]

At this point I'll only say that I'm a big fan of both architects.

Mike

[Jim_Kennedy]

No rake - gotta like that.

[Joe Hancock]

Bunker A has a gathering landscape surrounding it while Bunker B has a repelling landscape surrounding it. Bunker A would be something utilized often while Bunker B would be utilized once in awhile as a bit of whimsy. Both have their place, but Bunker A would have more places in my book.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Bunker A has a gathering landscape surrounding it while Bunker B has a repelling landscape surrounding it. Bunker A would be something utilized often while Bunker B would be utilized once in awhile as a bit of whimsy. Both have their place, but Bunker A would have more places in my book.

+1

Functionality questions: why is Bunker B even there, with all that slop action around it and on top of that the volcano styling of the bunker? What's with the hair, it seems functionally its purpose is to dictate a high shot, which you'd probably want anyway given the slope short of the green? Or is it just to prevent possible putter usage? (I say if someone wanted to putt from that bunker and there was no hair to stop them, have at it. That would be one helluva shot.)

Aesthetically, Bunker B does appear a little "off," what with the natural-looking "bunkers" (paths, random sand, whatever) just back of the green.

[Peter Pallotta]

I can't believe you are all missing the obvious:

Bunker A is perfectly matched by the overcast sky and cool winds off the water, while Bunker B blends beautifully with a sunny, dappled sky and warm summer breeze.

Since in both locations these are the prevailing atmospheric conditions, it is obvious that the architects matched the bunker style to the conditions.

It makes perfect sense: if the wind is cold and the sky is grey, I want a rugged, natural scar of a bunker to play out of -- nothing manicured or pretty; while if I'm in shorts and a polo shirt and wearing sunglasses, I want to be in a bunker that looks as good and as stylish as I do!

These modern-day architects think of everything, I tell you...   

[Greg Tallman]

Agree with Mark, Dye's bunker would be far more pleasing aesthetically if it simple matched the dunes behind the Green. It would have to be more penal, similar to several áreas at Diamante where PC and Co. just left a sandy, scrubby mogul surrounded by turf. This effect fronting the par 3 second is probably the best example.

[Mike_Young]

B has a little bit of that half Brazilian wax look....

[Kalen Braley]

Bunker A has a gathering landscape surrounding it while Bunker B has a repelling landscape surrounding it. Bunker A would be something utilized often while Bunker B would be utilized once in awhile as a bit of whimsy. Both have their place, but Bunker A would have more places in my book.

Joe,

As usual, you nailed it.  Bunker A seems to just be there merrily going along its way, while B seems to draw attention to itself. 

To put it in other terms ....like the Coen Brothers movies.

Bunker A is "The Dude" in Big Lebowski





Bunker B is Clooney's smarmy character in Intolerable Cruelty:

[Joe Hellrung]

Great discussion here. 


My only question on bunker A is whether it is more of an advantage to be in the bunker than the cabbage that surrounds it.  In other words, is this bunker penal in nature when the alternative if it wasn't there would be to hit out of an uphill lie from thick vegetation.  Credit to Matt Bielawa for raising this same point with me a few weeks ago during a round we played together.  At the time I disagreed that the surrounding grass should be a consideration, but Bunker A helps me see and agree with his point. 


Bunker B, though it sticks out aesthetically, at least creates a clear disadvantage over being in the surrounding fairway.  Its location on the hole removes an option of how to play the hole - laying up short - or at least makes you think about it a little harder. 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Where is Photo A?


If that is actually meant to be a bunker, then whoever designed it is my new favourite architect. Because that's the most natural looking "natural" bunker that I've ever seen.


My guess is that it is just a sand scar or perhaps it was once upon a time a bunker that has since been ignored for many years.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Eyebrows on bunkers in an area that is otherwise surrounded by playable ground (as shown in photo B) never appeals to me, slight misses are over penalized.

[Mike Hendren]

Rather than continuing the ruse I'll come clean:  Bunker A isn't a bunker at all.  It's a natural scar in the dunes backing Achmelvich Beach just north of Lochinvar in the Highlands.  Between the car park and beach there are a few acres of uneven, closely cropped linksland that beg for a cup and flag or two. 

Pete Dye is no Mother Nature.

Mike

[Mike_Young]

MH,

I stay confused a lot trying to decide if items like the grass on top of bunker B are really to be considered part of the architect's design any more than a group of trees.  As courses mature different supts and committees come along and change the faces of courses.  It's sort of like a women at the beauty salon ( or parlor as we call it here)  And it works the same....an attractive women can have many different hairstyles etc and it still works...BUT you get a really nice ugly women in the beauty parlor and no amount of styling will fix it...( ask Jaime Fox)...
The other thing is that often the architect doesn't even know some guy changed the "hairstyle" of his course.  Did PD really put that grass on that bunker or???

[Mike Hendren]

Mike, I'm guessing Pete and Alice would not approve of the up-do.

That bunker needs a good shave - I hear the men's locker room at Athens CC keeps a huge supply of razors.

Mike

[Mike_Young]

Agree.

As for ACC, once the metrosexual generation took over and manscaping became the craze our razor use has gone up considerably.  So many keep that little two or three day growth look going ( on their face that is) and all that matters on the course is the fruit smoothies at the turn house....of course we are getting the new carts with the usb connectors for phones and most now use bluetooth speakers in their carts...the problem is most of them don't take the time to learn to actually play...BUT the good thing is...once their kids get to where they can hit a driver 250 yards they all think they are next super star and they will start spending left and right while telling all on the practice area that will listen how great the kid will be...AND IT'S ALL PART OF WEINERSHAVEN

[Bill_McBride]

No rake is appropriate for Bunker A.

[Sean_A]

The bunker below isn't far off the Bogey Natural Look.  As I mentioned previously, the big difference is the pit contains the sand, which is essential on a links.  Of course, we all most want the natural look compromised even more by having short grass ride into the sand.  This surely makes creating centreline bunkers very difficult should we at all care about function over form.  Bottom line, we play golf on courses, not on all natural playing surfaces...so sacrifices good aesthetic sacrifices must be made in the name of good design. That isn't to say that the Dye bunker isn't a a bit loopy, but whats wrong some loopy in design?  One good way to eliminate the hand ringing over purdy bunkers is to build less of the damn things.  One could even imagine some holes designed around the best natural spot(s) for hazards if we decided that good design could be accomplished with 25 bunkers rather than 75. 



Ciao

[Jaeger Kovich]

Photo B looks like it has Don King's haircut!