Maybe O/T--What makes a great golf course photo?

[Sam Kestin]

I'm just starting to get into course photography and have absolutely no idea what I am doing.


I know absolutely nothing about photography other than that sunset is a good time to take pictures. And I should try at all costs not to have my finger hanging over the lens of the camera (has happened multiple times). Other than those two sage nuggets of wisdom, I am hopeless so far.


What makes a great golf course photo to you guys?


In evaluating a golf course you've never seen before, what qualities must the photos have in order to help that process?


I know we're not supposed to ask non-architecture questions like this, but since a lot of time is spent posting and analyzing photos here I figured it might not be a bad idea to get some feedback on what it is the crowd likes/dislikes about golf course photography.


If anyone on here knows more about this subject than I do (which should be roughly 99.9999999% of you)--feel free to share any helpful hints you might have on the subject.

[Jeff Taylor]

Happy reading.
JT


http://digital-photography-school.com/5-elements-of-composition-in-photography/

[Sean_A]

Sam


For me, I could care less if the photos are great.  What I ideally want from photos is to inform the text.  Sure, better photos are more pleasing, but I can almost always get the sense of a course from very average photos.  In truth, I like pix taken on overcast days...for some reason it helps me see the texture and details of the course better.  However, its the text which really sets up photos.  If there is no text I will very quickly skim pix and get bored.   

Just stick your eye behind the lens and snap away.  You will soon find what pleases you.

Good luck.


Ciao

[Tim_Weiman]

Sam,


I think Sean makes a good point. However, if your goal really is "nice pictures" and you are an amateur photographer (at best), I would say you need to take lots of pictures to get that one good one.


My experience has been 50:1 - pictures to good pictures.

[John Kavanaugh]

There are no great golf movies or photos. People need to quit trying. Don't take pictures when you are playing. Only take pictures where you would play from, artsy attempts to beautify a hole from some obscure angle, or looking backwards, are nothing more than the photographer imposing his will on an unwitting public.

[Greg Tallman]

shadows

[John Kavanaugh]

Sam,


I apologize in advance because I really hate photos and the devices that take them. But I'm curious, what are you wanting to do with your photos? Maybe if I understood the appeal of photos I could appreciate them more. Thanks.

[Howard Riefs]

Good related discussion by Wayne and Gib in this thread...


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61955.msg

[Charlie_Bell]

I don't mean to be snide when I suggest that you look closely at pictures you admire and figure out what most appeals to you about each one. If you can identify the elements that please you, you'll have learned something useful.


Here's what most appeals to me in golf landscapes:
1) depth - a sense that there are things to examine in the foreground, midrange and distance
2) composition - weight/balance always matters, of course, and I like visual elements to lead my eye along a pleasing, rhythmic path
3) asymmetry - there are plenty of good pictures that are balanced and centered, but I tend to like those that aren't (You'll read about the Rule of Thirds, which holds that the major elements should not be in the middle but 1/3 of the way across the frame, L/R as well as up/down.  That's helpful, but it shouldn't be an absolute.


Finally, what I absolutely HATE is over-saturation of colors.  Sometimes, maybe, it's okay to tweak the colors up a little, but I LOATHE images containing colors that have been cranked up far beyond what you'd see.  Golf is played in the natural world, not Fantasyland.

[Tom_Doak]

1.  As John says, don't take pictures while you're playing -- or at least, don't expect them to turn out well.  It is almost impossible to play well and take good pictures at the same time, so you should enjoy playing when you're playing.


2.  The best time to take photos is two hours after sunrise and two hours before sunset, when you've got some shadows to help see the contours and add depth.  Maybe a bit more than two hours on a tree-lined course; maybe even later on a totally open links course.


3.  With maybe a few exceptions, of the thousands of really good golf course photos I've seen, nearly all of them have the flag for the hole in the picture.  Without it, people have a hard time orienting themselves or understanding the hole.  If it's breezy, the flag will appear bigger or smaller based on how the wind is affecting it, so if you've got what you think is a great photo, take several pictures in succession, and sort later for the one where the flag is most prominent.  [In the old days of film, you would also take slightly over- and under-exposed shots to get the perfect lighting, but now that's all done by software.]


4.  How you frame a photo, according to Charlie's rules in the last post, is very important.  Some people are very good at composition without trying; others will always struggle with it no matter how much you try to teach them.  Look at some of the pictures you've taken, and see where the flag position [or the golfer] was in the picture, vs. the rule of thirds, and you'll know if you're a natural or not.

[Adam Lawrence]

With maybe a few exceptions, of the thousands of really good golf course photos I've seen, nearly all of them have the flag for the hole in the picture.  Without it, people have a hard time orienting themselves or understanding the hole.  If it's breezy, the flag will appear bigger or smaller based on how the wind is affecting it, so if you've got what you think is a great photo, take several pictures in succession, and sort later for the one where the flag is most prominent.  [In the old days of film, you would also take slightly over- and under-exposed shots to get the perfect lighting, but now that's all done by software.]

I agree with Tom on this, but the sneaky solution is to photoshop a flag in.

[Matt_Cohn]

4.  How you frame a photo, according to Charlie's rules in the last post, is very important.  Some people are very good at composition without trying; others will always struggle with it no matter how much you try to teach them.  Look at some of the pictures you've taken, and see where the flag position [or the golfer] was in the picture, vs. the rule of thirds, and you'll know if you're a natural or not.

This is very true of the end product! But maybe not while you're taking the picture, because it's so easy to crop later on. Make sure you get the overall scene, and crop later on.

[Ronald Montesano]

Sam,


Here are the questions I have for you: Were you a photographer of any substance/enthusiasm before you turned to this latest interest? How good of a golfer are you (in which do you know how to shoot: the 70s, 60s, 90s, 80s)? What type of photo equipment are you using? Are you any good with post-processing software?


I disagree with the notion that you should never shoot while golfing. Your partners have to be complicit in your method. Many is the time that I have hit a wayward shot and, along the path, discovered an angle or a subject that I would never have uncovered if I had not hit my shot there. You need to be very good at the choreography of golf to get shots and shots in, and you shouldn't expect too much from your game if you are doing both. HOWEVER, when you have the opportunity to go around a course just once, and you want photos to commemorate, you multitask and that's that. You also learn to take one or zero practice swings, and determine which club you will hit long before you actually have to hit it. I'm told that Joe Bausch is Leprechauningly-good at this. I've not heard from anyone who has played with Jon Cavalier (they may all be dead) to understand his method for simultaneously shooting and playing.


I would encourage you to find local and regional tournaments of any substance, and ask if they would mind your going around during play. Offer them a DVD of 30 good shots for their use as compensation (hell, they may even pay you.) Taking a shot with humans in it and without them is a terrific way to understand and enhance the orientation and perception that Tom Doak mentioned above.


John Kavanaugh's question on what you intend to do with the images is an excellent one. If you plan to do something professionally, check out this guy and his work. He is the best I know in the eastern USA, and his resume is top notch. When I reached toward him for an interview, he was most cooperative: http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/2016-interview-series-photographer-laurence-lambrecht/


PM me if you have questions or wish to continue this discussion off-line. I suspect that we could get a little PM going among the avid shooters, without having to bother those who don't go in for that sort of thing.

[Nigel Islam]

Sam,


Here are the questions I have for you: Were you a photographer of any substance/enthusiasm before you turned to this latest interest? How good of a golfer are you (in which do you know how to shoot: the 70s, 60s, 90s, 80s)? What type of photo equipment are you using? Are you any good with post-processing software?


I disagree with the notion that you should never shoot while golfing. Your partners have to be complicit in your method. Many is the time that I have hit a wayward shot and, along the path, discovered an angle or a subject that I would never have uncovered if I had not hit my shot there. You need to be very good at the choreography of golf to get shots and shots in, and you shouldn't expect too much from your game if you are doing both. HOWEVER, when you have the opportunity to go around a course just once, and you want photos to commemorate, you multitask and that's that. You also learn to take one or zero practice swings, and determine which club you will hit long before you actually have to hit it. I'm told that Joe Bausch is Leprechauningly-good at this. I've not heard from anyone who has played with Jon Cavalier (they may all be dead) to understand his method for simultaneously shooting and playing.


I would encourage you to find local and regional tournaments of any substance, and ask if they would mind your going around during play. Offer them a DVD of 30 good shots for their use as compensation (hell, they may even pay you.) Taking a shot with humans in it and without them is a terrific way to understand and enhance the orientation and perception that Tom Doak mentioned above.


John Kavanaugh's question on what you intend to do with the images is an excellent one. If you plan to do something professionally, check out this guy and his work. He is the best I know in the eastern USA, and his resume is top notch. When I reached toward him for an interview, he was most cooperative: http://buffalogolfer.com/wordpress/2016-interview-series-photographer-laurence-lambrecht/


PM me if you have questions or wish to continue this discussion off-line. I suspect that we could get a little PM going among the avid shooters, without having to bother those who don't go in for that sort of thing.

I've played with Jon Cavalier, and he is a very fast (and pretty decent) player. I think he has a couple cameras he uses. What I want to know is how he handles his camera, takes hundreds of pictures, and still beats me by 6 shots? I can't even put my iPhone in my back pocket without butt dialing somebody.


And I just took my pulse, and it's still there!