Oakland Hills to vote on restoring Ross

[Ryan Taylor]

This is funny considering  CCD just spent a fortune renovating there facilities upgrading their bowling alley.  Your numbers have got to be way off, there are 2 tracks. At least OH is spending the money on the most important asset the golf course and the one that gives them their fame.

I also applaud OH (and BCC, MCC) for putting the money into the golf course. The line in the sand is clearly being drawn in SE MI. The top tier clubs are saying enough is enough and pulling away from everybody else.

[Tom Bacsanyi]

So who drew up the renovation plan?  Foster?

[Sean_A]

This is funny considering  CCD just spent a fortune renovating there facilities upgrading their bowling alley.  Your numbers have got to be way off, there are 2 tracks. At least OH is spending the money on the most important asset the golf course and the one that gives them their fame.

I also applaud OH (and BCC, MCC) for putting the money into the golf course. The line in the sand is clearly being drawn in SE MI. The top tier clubs are saying enough is enough and pulling away from everybody else.

Not many people realize it yet, but Metro Detroit has a ton of very fine private courses, but many are not well presented at the moment. The area is far deeper than Oakland and Franklin Hills.  In truth, I think Orchard Lake pips Franklin Hills and is just as good as GCA.com stalwarts Mid Pines & Roaring Gap...how is that for a bold statement 

Lets hope the club fires away with the redo...OH is one of those courses I always believed should be restrored...it could be one of the best in the country!

Ciao

[Jeff Bergeron]

So who drew up the renovation plan?  Foster?




Hanse

[Paul Stockert]

Will be interesting to see if the membership approves this.
I wonder what the "increase in member dues" will amount to in order to fund the project.


My brother-in-law lives in a Detroit suburb and is a member of CC of Detroit.
I was there a few weeks ago and he has always said that OHCC "offers great deals to incentivize new members" as a combo of 1) auto industry slowdown and 2) global financial crisis truly had a negative impact on all private clubs in Detroit.


Detroit is doing MUCH better now, but is this the time to do such a drastic restoration? If headwinds return, then could this backfire?


Not sure if OFCC can command a $72K down stroke to join when competing clubs are no where near that. (Maybe $30K, but $72K would make sense if that includes the restoration assessment.)


Let's assume:


1. $11M cost
2. 300 full golf members
3. Paid over 5 years
4. 0% interest


Works out to be an increase in monthly dues of ~$610.


Don't know how they may assess loss of revenue or perhaps interest, but my number above is on low side.
Good thing they only need a majority, but I also wonder how many members they may lose over this.

 





This is funny considering  CCD just spent a fortune renovating there facilities upgrading their bowling alley.  Your numbers have got to be way off, there are 2 tracks. Atleast OH is spending the money on the most important asset the golf course and the one that gives them their fame.

I'm not making any comparisons and the numbers I cite are best guesses but the $11M figure is lifted out of the article at the beginning of the thread. CCD already did work with Keith Foster then Tom Doak. During that process - at a different economic time - they lost close to 60 members.


OK, let's assume there are more members. Great. I genuinely hope it works out for all.

Just FYI we don't have to guess at member numbers because the article says they have 500+ equity members.

[Ryan Taylor]

Not many people realize it yet, but Metro Detroit has a ton of very fine private courses, but many are not well presented at the moment. The area is far deeper than Oakland and Franklin Hills.  In truth, I think Orchard Lake pips Franklin Hills and is just as good as GCA.com stalwarts Mid Pines & Roaring Gap...how is that for a bold statement.

Agree re: Metro Detroit. I have FH and OL neck and neck. Need to play FH again. Should be interesting to see how the MI Top 25 GCA course ranking list shakes out this year. Add The Loop and a restored BCC into the mix. The 2017 list will be very interesting with the Andy Staples led Meadowbrook CC renovation and the Bruce Hepner led Red Run GC renovation.

[Sean_A]

Ryan


I have Orchard pipping Franklin (in truth I was disappointed by FH's greens...being a Ross I thought they would be superb...but that isn't the case) because of the better greens and some better terrain, but the two are similar in quality and I could see it either way. A restored OH will knock either of these out of the park because OH's greens are much better and the terrain is just as good. 


Ciao 

[BCowan]

Sean/Ryan,

    I disagree with you greatly in regards to Franklin's greens, I think they are solid/really good (plus you played in shoulder season).  They aren't the best Ross greens I've played but they are good (just outside of my top 5).  I haven't played OH south and have heard great things about their greens.  If Franklin ever fixed 17 it would be very very special for it has a lot of unique features.  If OLCC fixes 9 down the road it would really vault it as well but both should be in top 100 as is.  Having seen the plans for OHCC I am looking forward to attending the AM this year and seeing it in person.  Detroit is finally polishing it's gems and thoroughbreds. 

[Sean_A]

Ben


FH's greens are good, but not distinguished. 


I really don't know where either course settles in the top 100 US, both are comparable to 25-50 on my top 100 GB&I and both get 1*...so high quality stuff.   


Ciao       

[Brent Carlson]

I hope OH does indeed restore.  That would be awesome.


Would the course be difficult enough for an Open with width restored?  Also - length seemed to be maxed out based on my last visit there. The modern golf ball is pushing the limit on a property limited by housing/roads.


All in all it would be a major boon for the club.   

[Brent Carlson]

Found the Ross plans courtesy of Golf Course Histories.


This is very exciting.  Hope they move forward with the restoration.


http://golfcoursehistories.com/OaklandHills.html

[Brent Carlson]

From the article:


"They will vote beginning June 20, and if a simple majority OK the project by a July 8 deadline, the course will be shuttered from March 2018 through May 2019."

Has anyone heard if this passed at OH?

[Eric LeFante]

I heard 61% voted NO for the renovation. Anyone else hear the same thing?

[PCCraig]

I heard 61% voted NO for the renovation. Anyone else hear the same thing?

For real? Ouch.

[Dan Boerger]

If 61% voted "no" that doesn't surprise me. Why? For the simple fact it's already a top-of-the-food-chain facility and if there's indeed a waiting list there is obviously not much broken. Also, a bit surprised a simple majority can carry an investment of that magnitude. (Again, if that's the case.)

[Ian Mackenzie]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20160712/NEWS/160719943/oakland-hills-membership-rejects-11-million-south-course-renovation#utm_medium=email&utm_source=cdb-afternoon&utm_campaign=cdb-afternoon-20160712


Didnt some guy on this site from Detroit say that this was as good as done...?...

[Brent Carlson]

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20160712/NEWS/160719943/oakland-hills-membership-rejects-11-million-south-course-renovation#utm_medium=email&utm_source=cdb-afternoon&utm_campaign=cdb-afternoon-20160712


Didnt some guy on this site from Detroit say that this was as good as done...?...

Interesting.  I wonder how much had to do with increased expense/time and how much had to do with the architecture.  Selfishly I was hoping for a restoration and the course vaulting back into the top 15.

[Ryan Taylor]

Disappointing. Better get back in bed with the PGA of America. 2024 PGA?

[BCowan]

Disappointing. Better get back in bed with the PGA of America. 2024 PGA?

Whether or not it passed has nothing to do with them getting a US Open IMO.  It's all whether corporate sponsors will foot the bill in the area post 08'!  The renovation was for the members enjoyment. 

[PCCraig]

Disappointing. Better get back in bed with the PGA of America. 2024 PGA?

Whether or not it passed has nothing to do with them getting a US Open IMO.  It's all whether corporate sponsors will foot the bill in the area post 08'!  The renovation was for the members enjoyment.

??


Clubs like Oakland Hills don't spend $11mln for member's enjoyment. The whole purpose is to attract major championships. Hanse is the "it" guy now and would of helped their chances to land a US Open.

[BCowan]

Disappointing. Better get back in bed with the PGA of America. 2024 PGA?

Whether or not it passed has nothing to do with them getting a US Open IMO.  It's all whether corporate sponsors will foot the bill in the area post 08'!  The renovation was for the members enjoyment.

??


Clubs like Oakland Hills don't spend $11mln for member's enjoyment. The whole purpose is to attract major championships. Hanse is the "it" guy now and would of helped their chances to land a US Open.

They spent a good chunk of change renovating their North course, the one that doesn't have the big event.  Top tier clubs spend because other clubs are and to be the center of attention.  Major Championships are about Corp tents and how big your market is and obtaining those large sponsors.  Name me the last Major Championship reno that involved Widening fairways? 

[Tom_Doak]

Clubs like Oakland Hills don't spend $11mln for member's enjoyment. The whole purpose is to attract major championships.

PCraig:


I don't know about that.  When they were interviewing architects, they said their primary focus was the enjoyment of the membership, and that attracting a tournament was not their priority [though I am sure for some people in the club, it still is].  However they didn't throw out an $11m number in those interviews, and I would guess there was some sticker shock involved in the vote.

[Dan Boerger]

My experience is that it's not all about attracting major championships. Long time and well off members often look at any tournament -- even a major -- as an incredible imposition to the enjoyment of "their" club and club experience.

[Blake Conant]

Is Oakland hills a not for profit outfit?

[Will Lozier]

Looking at the aerial for Ross' more authentic version reveals less than 50 bunkers which in and of itself is fine and may well have been a better golf course. But, I would be hard pressed to think it would present the same challenge and be up for another US Open. Perhaps it would be a wonderful Women's US Open venue?


And while RTJ's fairway bunker scheme is totally over the top, it is likely the reason the course is considered so tough? I pose this as a question having never been on property while still knowing the greens are considered to be full of challenge and perhaps the course's most distinguishing feature.


Lastly, the price tag seems extraordinarily steep for essentially removing a ton of bunkers, widening fairways, and removing trees!