2017 US Open to Erin Hills

[JR Potts]

Jim:

Where in any of my posts did I begrudge the USGA for maximizing revenue?  I would like to see it.

In fact, the only reason I brought up money was in response to Richard's illusion that the USGA was picking public venues because of the USGA's preference for a different style of golf courses.  His words, not mine.

Finally Richard - look at the late times from Bethpage....those didn't have anything to do with the fact that rounds got rained out, did it?

And Jim, again, you said it bettter than I could have in your last post....the USGA is maximizing their revenues with the US OPen.....that's fine by me.  And as a result, under the current agreement with host clubs, you will see more and more public courses....and if the agreement never changes, you might see exclusively public courses.....likely on the West coast as they are ratings bananzas due to the ability to tee the leaders off at 6-7pm EST on the weekend.

[Forrest Richardson]

The USGA not only is favoring public courses, but also is very adept at knowing where they will get enthusiasm [latin: having god within]. I think the decision is timely and interesting.

[Garland Bayley]

The USGA not only is favoring public courses, but also is very adept at knowing where they will get enthusiasm [latin: having god within]. I think the decision is timely and interesting.

It almost looks like if your name is not Donald Trump, and you make a high profile attempt to build a public course for a major, the USGA will come calling. A couple of years ago, I suggested perhaps Dallas/Fort Worth ought to make the effort. After all, why should Texans keep have to go to OK to watch a major.

[Steve Salmen]

Since this thread has evolved into the USGA and money, I have failed to find the answers to these questions buried in the thread:

Will the USGA make more money from the Open at Erin Hills than they would have at Cog Hill?

Why is the USGA hoarding so much cash when they can be using it fighting litigation against manufacturers of clubs and balls?

[Tim Nugent]

If the USGA would have fought to keep ball flight aligned with course distances, they would have many more venues to choose from.  However, they choose not to for finacial reasons and now have to deal with the consequenses of that decision.  Personally, I favor seeing the US Open move around and not be stuck at the same ol' tracks.  It is a great way to showcase the multitude of options pertaining to style and setting available in the US and sets it apart from the British Open.  Plus, I don't see anything wrong with the USGA using Public access venues for an "Open" - which by definition, means anyone can play.  Leave the Private Clubs to the PGA.

[Garland Bayley]

...
Why is the USGA hoarding so much cash when they can be using it fighting litigation against manufacturers of clubs and balls?

Because it is cheaper to wait until patents expire and then legislate against the technology. Only about 7 more years until the ProV is history!

[Steve Salmen]

Garland,

Does the same theory hold for thin-faced titanium drivers?  Is there hope of a rollback or is the cat out of the bag permanently?

[PCCraig]

I think the membership angle is what's driving it away from the Winged Foot's of the world -- the US Open has become a giant thing, and that's either wonderful (from the standpoint of the Erin Hills folks) or a hassle (rumors of Shinnecock and WFoot membership rebelling against hosting another one -- TCC at Brookline pretty much told the USGA no more...)

I think the president of Winged Foot was ousted for trying to suggesting they take either the 2015 or 2016 Open. As far as TCC goes, after the  Ryder Cup was over, they ended spending a lot of money to make the Town Of Brookline happy again. The town golf course (Putterham Meadows) was used as a parking lot for the RC. For two years after that, it looked like a construction site. It might be safe to say we've seen the last of big time golf at TCC.

Re: TCC

TCC and the town of Brookline did jump through hoops in order to host the Ryder Cup in 1999. Most of the Primrose nine was used for the corporate tents and hospitality and was pretty much unplayable until 2001. They did have to pay to clean up Putterham as well, but I think they anticipated that as that is the best option for mass public parking close to the course. What people underestimate in this process for bringing the Open or other large events to these old private clubs is that the members absolutley hate having to give up their golf course for long periods of time around the actual event, and being limited as to the times they can or can't play during the rest of the year. Some clubs love the exposure a major event brings, the $ the USGA or PGA contributes for the troubles, and boosted membership interest....but a old money club like TCC really doesn't need any of the three.

People also forget that after the Ryder Cup in 1999 TCC was set up to host the PGA in 2005, and in 2003 the membership pretty much told the PGA...."nevermind, we don't want it." This resulted in the PGA moving the event to New Jersey. Shortly afterwards the club started campaining the USGA for the 100-year anniversary of the 1913 US Open but they insisted on if the event was held it would be on a smaller scale. Obviously the USGA doesn't mind doing a "smaller" Open as evidenced by the Open site they decided on in 2013...Merion. Instead TCC was given the 2013 US Am.

I don't think TCC is totally out of the running for future Opens. I would bet the USGA would be willing to do a "smaller" Open once a decade or so at an old line club that has a ton of history but logistical issues. Perhaps TCC would be the front-runner for the 2023 Open???

[JWinick]

I don't think distance is the problem for older courses.  Pebble Beach was shorter than Olympia Fields played (7040 Par 71 v. 7200 Par 70), and it appears that the USGA is trying to prove the viability of shorter courses (Merion, for example) than move US Opens to 7500 + sites.

I believe space is a problem at the older courses due to the surrounding logistics.   Courses built with the USGA in mind (Chambers, Erin) can offer better hospitality tent access, parking, etc.   The difficulty working with Cook County probably soured the minds of the USGA, but time should heal those wounds.   I'm sure Cook County would bend over backwards to get a US Open if the USGA wanted to go there.   They were set on Erin Hills for 3+ years, so it wouldn't have made a difference.   

We will see how the USGA's experiment goes with untested golf courses.   In course conditions and selection, it appears the USGA is imitated the PGA and the PGA is imitating the USGA.   

[Ken Fry]

What struck me most when we had a small GCA outing at Erin Hills a few years ago was the overall length of the course.  From all the back tees, the course measured over 8000 yards!

I haven't been back since but I'm sure the changes to the course haven't affected most of the back tees.  Given Mike Davis' tendency to vary tee locations and alter how holes play each day (in some cases dramatically) it will be very interesting how the top players will prepare and adjust for an Erin Hills open.

I stated in an earlier thread about Pebble Beach that the USGA needs to stop tricking up the preparation of these wonderful golf courses.  If the course is good enough to challenge the game's best players, let the course challenge them.  My only hope is the USGA prepares the course "appropriately."  To me that means firm and fast conditions, maintaining proper playing corridors to allow for strong wind and playing options (not 25 yard wide fairways) and greens that are firm and fast but not so over the top as "hit and hope."

The course will do fine challenging the players.  Like Whistling Straits, it will be interesting how the gallery will make it's way around the property.

Ken

[Garland Bayley]

Garland,

Does the same theory hold for thin-faced titanium drivers?  Is there hope of a rollback or is the cat out of the bag permanently?

The distance discussion threads on this site seem to indicate it is the ball far more than the thin faced driver.

The articles I have read say the hi-cor drivers can give at most 5 yards, whereas, TEP reported that the USGA told him 25 yards come from the low spinning balls vs. balata.

[Tom_Doak]

I do think the length of these courses has a fair amount to do with the selection process nowadays.

The secret is not to think about the length of them today, but whether they have any room to expand.  The USGA is signing up championships 7-10 years into the future, and I don't think they have complete confidence that they can hold the line on equipment for that long ... so if they commit to a course that is only borderline long enough now, they could be screwed by 2017.

But, it's mostly about the money, and about not wanting to negotiate the terms with private clubs.  Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, even Pebble Beach will give them a big discount, because they can spend the next 10 years making money off the Open exposure by selling green fees at higher prices.  Shinnecock doesn't really make much money that way [apart from the caddies and their boss, of course]; so to them the hassle is the bigger factor.

[Jim Nugent]

When has a tournament/course not identified the best player?  How else can we define "best," other than the one who scores the lowest over the four rounds? 

[JR Potts]

I do think the length of these courses has a fair amount to do with the selection process nowadays.

The secret is not to think about the length of them today, but whether they have any room to expand.  The USGA is signing up championships 7-10 years into the future, and I don't think they have complete confidence that they can hold the line on equipment for that long ... so if they commit to a course that is only borderline long enough now, they could be screwed by 2017.

But, it's mostly about the money, and about not wanting to negotiate the terms with private clubs.  Erin Hills, Chambers Bay, even Pebble Beach will give them a big discount, because they can spend the next 10 years making money off the Open exposure by selling green fees at higher prices.  Shinnecock doesn't really make much money that way [apart from the caddies and their boss, of course]; so to them the hassle is the bigger factor.

Wow, didn't I get called out repeatedly on this thread for saying the same thing?

[Howard Riefs]

"Four years to go. It can't get here fast enough."

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/golf/expections-anticipation-high-at-erin-hill-over-2017-us-open-b9937317z1-212091891.html

[Josh Tarble]

Good timing on this article Howard...I just played it on Saturday, and swear if they put the pins in a bit more difficult position, it would be Open ready tomorrow.  Really fun, really difficult course.

[Terry Lavin]

I really think it will be a perfect Midwestern site.

[Howard Riefs]

Tickets now available. See you there....


https://ticketing.usga.org/2OrderForm.aspx?TID=HY93163473XYT