No more Opens at Muirfield

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

And not to mention the need for transgender bathrooms like in the USA!


Transgender bathrooms too, like in the USA!??

I told you not to mention Transgender bathrooms in the USA!??

(per Benny Hill)

[Jon Wiggett]

Hard to compare the PGA Tour to a private club. If I'm not mistaken Michelle Wie played in a couple events quite a few years back. Which seemed to be a mistake in retrospect however, I don't think there was an issue with her competing. Not sure if any men ever played in an LPGA Tour event?

David,


I disagree. The PGA Tour is a members club and you have to be a member of the tour to hold a card. Michelle Wie played as a guest in a similar fashion how women play at Muirfield. There has never been an issue with women players at Muirfield but there is with them being members. The LPGA tour is specifically gender based yet no outcry there. All across the UK clubs regularly prevent male players from playing on Tuesdays or Thursdays for several hours due to Ladies Day events yet no outcry over this discrimination is to be heard.


In truth there should not be any either. In the end it should be about whether a club that discriminates against one of genders is the right venue for a big golf tournament and quite rightly the R&A have decided it is not. If however someone bases an argument on same gender clubs being wrong per se then their argument needs to be applied in an even manner across society.


Jon

[Scott Macpherson]

Hi,


It is legal in the UK, and important that it stays so, that clubs can choose members based on their gender. Given this, the members of HCEG have every right to make the rules for their club, and to run the club as they see fit.


As it stands, and interestingly, I understand there are more female golf clubs in Scotland than male (25 to 20). In St Andrews, until the R&A became a mixed gender club, there were five main golf clubs, with 3 being male only and 2 women's only clubs.


It was fairly widely known that the club may lose the right to host The Open if they did not allow female members, but I suspect that a number of the HCEG members who voted to keep the club as a male only facility did so because they did not like the pressure being put on them to change.  The timeline for the change and the implications on redeveloping the clubhouse may also have been factors. All change introduces uncertainty, and perhaps some members also wondered how the everyday ambiance of the club may change with women becoming members, and if it may lead to a change to the foursomes golf the club cherish.


Should the club continue to not be a host venue for The Open, there may not be any significant financial impact on the club as visitor numbers and green fee takings should stay strong for the next 10 years as the course is terrific and people still want to play it.


As for the future, who knows what it holds, but I can imagine the club will revisit it's membership question at some point, and that The Open will return to the club in the future, but that will be for the members to decide.


Scott

[Jason Thurman]

Not sure what the fuss is about.  The club has a right to do what they please and the R&A have the right to tell them to take a flying you-know-what.  Seems to me since a decent portion of the club's mystique/rankings are based on holding majors that they will no doubt come around on the next vote.  Economics 101.

Exactly.

[JJShanley]

I've become increasingly in favor of American style freedom of association, speech, and counterspeech.  I've only ever walked Muirfield, but think the world of it.  In fact I had a great experience watching Justin Rose play in the Amateur Championship back in 1998 with someone who turned out as the captain of the HCEG that year.  He could not have been nicer to me that day.  He even tried to get me a clubhouse pass but the r&a had given them all away that day.

I'd likely have voted for inclusion myself, but the result doesn't change my desire to play it one day.

[Marty Bonnar]

The truth is that the HCEG doesn't just discriminate against gender. It equally discriminates against class, wealth, what job you do, which school you went to, who you know, what handshakes you know, etc, etc.
It's the nature of members of private clubs (golf or otherwise) to want to associate with those of equal standing.
I don't have an issue with any of that. Men are weird. I am happy, however, that the R&A are standing by their relatively recent realisation that women exist!
Cheers,
F.

[Tom Birkert]

I will defend any private club to choose their members based on any criteria they so choose.

I adore Muirfield, it is a stunning course and extremely fair. The members there seem to like to play foursomes, have a long lunch, and then play foursomes again. While generalising, there probably aren’t that many women who they would want as members – because there certainly aren’t many men that they want as members!

I have no issues with the numerous Women only clubs for various activities.

At most golf clubs, the only gender that has specific tee times allocated to them are women – specific mornings for example, despite them being able to play whenever they want. That’s patently unfair.

As a general rule, if Nicola Sturgeon is upset, then you’ve probably made the right decision.

[Thomas Dai]

As a general rule, if Nicola Sturgeon is upset, then you’ve probably made the right decision.

😀😀
Atb

[George Pazin]

There is nothing the PGA Tour would love more than if a woman qualified her way onto the tour. Their closed shop is closed purely and solely by ability.

[Ben Sims]

ANGC stood fast in the face of its stiffest criticism. HCEG did too. ANGC eventually updated itself. HCEG will too.

Nothing to see here, IMO.

[JJShanley]

As a general rule, if Nicola Sturgeon is upset, then you’ve probably made the right decision.

Is the correct answer.  I dislike her less than Salmond, but that's a low bar.

[Jon Wiggett]

There is nothing the PGA Tour would love more than if a woman qualified her way onto the tour. Their closed shop is closed purely and solely by ability.

George,


you have to ask ability to do what? Male golfers can hit the ball further and that is about it. So membership of the tour is about being able to hit the ball far. If the tour would really like women to become members then they could easily even this out by requiring the male players to play a shortened ball. This would also be a good thing for golf in general.


Again, I do not think the tour should alter it's policy but it would be good for the game if there were some mixed tournaments.


Jon

[Thomas Dai]

According to press reports the voting was -
616 in total voted
397 'for' women members
219 'against'
Apparently this works out as 14 votes short of the 2/3rds majority needed and another EGM will be held in a couple of weeks time.

Atb

[Mike_Young]

There is nothing the PGA Tour would love more than if a woman qualified her way onto the tour. Their closed shop is closed purely and solely by ability.

George,


you have to ask ability to do what? Male golfers can hit the ball further and that is about it. So membership of the tour is about being able to hit the ball far. If the tour would really like women to become members then they could easily even this out by requiring the male players to play a shortened ball. This would also be a good thing for golf in general.


Again, I do not think the tour should alter it's policy but it would be good for the game if there were some mixed tournaments.


Jon

Jon,
With respect the two tours have completely different short games.  Some the ladies actually can hit the driver as far as a few of the men. 

[Jon Wiggett]

There is nothing the PGA Tour would love more than if a woman qualified her way onto the tour. Their closed shop is closed purely and solely by ability.

George,


you have to ask ability to do what? Male golfers can hit the ball further and that is about it. So membership of the tour is about being able to hit the ball far. If the tour would really like women to become members then they could easily even this out by requiring the male players to play a shortened ball. This would also be a good thing for golf in general.


Again, I do not think the tour should alter it's policy but it would be good for the game if there were some mixed tournaments.


Jon

Jon,
With respect the two tours have completely different short games.  Some the ladies actually can hit the driver as far as a few of the men.

Mike,


just because a couple of the longer ladies hit it as far as a couple of the shortest male pros does not alter the fact that the major difference in the games of ladies and male pro's is the distance. Were this addressed you would find that if the two tours played regularly together the ladies would adapt their game to mirror the men's.


Thomas,


interesting to hear that the club will be holding an EGM so soon and maybe  sign that losing The Open is a price they do not wish to pay.


Jon

[Howard Riefs]

Muirfield is back in British Open rota after vote passes to allow female members.

Last year’s vote resulted in only 64% support for the motion to allow women to join the club, which was short of the two thirds needed to pass. Tuesday's second vote, however, garnered 80.2% support. The earliest they could stage The Open is 2022.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39260578

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf/muirfield-vote-women-female-members-results-a7628616.html

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/mar/14/muirfield-golf-club-to-allow-women-to-join-for-the-first-time

https://www.ft.com/content/7e44a12b-2063-3237-b055-9ada477b1f3c

http://www.golf.com/tour-news/2017/03/14/muirfield-votes-admit-women-members

http://golfweek.com/2017/03/14/muirfield-female-members-vote-passes-british-open/

http://www.golfdigest.com/story/muirfield-returns-to-open-championship-rota-after-club-votes-to-admit-female-members

http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/18904582/muirfield-votes-admit-women-members-restored-open-championship-rota

[JJShanley]

Muirfield is back in British Open rota after vote passes to allow female members.

Last year’s vote resulted in only 64% support for the motion to allow women to join the club, which was short of the two thirds needed to pass. Tuesday's second vote, however, garnered 80.2% support. The earliest they could stage The Open is 2022.

I broke the news to HCEG member I know this morning, who had asked his wife to complete the ballot as she thought appropriate.

[MCirba]

Good to see.  Muirfield is too great of a course and HCEG too historic a club to be left out of the Open rota.

[Pete Lavallee]

Does this mean visiting female golfers will now be able to eat in the dining room?

[Mark Chaplin]

My guess is some serious political pressure was put upon the club. The financial loss to the region would have been immense from losing the Open. Kent reckon it's worth £90m over 5 years to the county economy.


Many HCEG members hold serious positions in public life and I cannot imagine Sturgeon and her mob didn't make a few calls.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

What clubs are left that are all Male?


Garden City Golf Club, and...., I thinking, please help me here!

[Alex Bullock]

Burning Tree outside of Washington, DC.

[MClutterbuck]

Preston Trail, Dallas, TX.


The Jockey Club, Buenos Aires, Argentina

[Niall C]

My guess is some serious political pressure was put upon the club. The financial loss to the region would have been immense from losing the Open. Kent reckon it's worth £90m over 5 years to the county economy.


Many HCEG members hold serious positions in public life and I cannot imagine Sturgeon and her mob didn't make a few calls.

Mark


I doubt that the politicos needed to make any phone calls. Any CEO, senior corporate guy, judge etc doesn't need to be told and others, from what I've heard, didn't relish being cast as misogynists however unfair and inaccurate that description would be. Mob rule to an extent which personally I think unfortunate but many will be pleased with the outcome.


Niall

[Keith Grande]

Did they do the "Honourable" thing or merely bow down to pressure?