No more Opens at Muirfield

[Mark Chaplin]

The HCEG have voted to remain men only and the R&A have confirmed the Open will only be played at clubs with women members.

[Ed Tilley]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/36331270

[Adam Lawrence]

I'm not totally surprised. Several informed people have said to me that they thought the HCEG would rather lose the Open than admit women, and that the club was very hostile to the thought of being pushed around by the R&A.


Leaves the R&A in a bit of a hole though.

[Tom_Doak]

Whoa.  I am not surprised by either separate decision, but shocked at the combination of the two.


I guess there are some tees they can stop maintaining now!

[Mark Chaplin]

My understanding was the club were always under a little pressure to host the Open as the course is popular with the players.

If you do not need the money changing your entire club ethos for one week every ten years could be considered excessive.

I do think there will be some outing of members in the public eye.

Adam I know there are a surprisingly small number of HCEG/R&A members.

[JJShanley]

Whoa.  I am not surprised by either separate decision, but shocked at the combination of the two.


I guess there are some tees they can stop maintaining now!

A friend of mine player the Scottish Amateur there last year.  I wonder if the SGU will follow suit.

[Mark Chaplin]

The Scottish Amateur doesn't involve public money/services so I doubt there'll be any political pressure.

[JJShanley]

The Scottish Amateur doesn't involve public money/services so I doubt there'll be any political pressure.

You have greater faith in Scottish society than me.

[Peter Pallotta]

Well, if you're looking for a club with the rarest of reputations, you can't beat that: a club so rigorously exclusive and securely insular that it won't even deign to let in the Open, not even as a guest!

[Niall C]

Peter


Here's the thing, if you and your wife wanted to play as a visitor at Muirfield you could do so. They are saying no to women members not no to women playing at Muirfield. It would be deeply ironic if after this decision there was a major ladies comp held there as there has been in the past.


Mark/Adam,


I wonder if in ten years time the R&A might end up dealing more with commercial concerns and public courses rather than largely private members clubs. They are obviously looking to broaden the rota list with the inclusion of Northern Ireland and perhaps Wales.


Niall

[Sean_A]

The signs have been that current membership will not alter their membership policy for R&A public campaign purposes...more power to the Honourable Company.  I still believe the entire concept of tying a Mens open to the the skirts of female membership is a PR/PC scam. Be that as it may, the R&A has the right to control The Open...only I wish it had remained in the domain of the three original clubs....this diversity of clubs might now be a much needed perspective on R&A actions who seem to be overly concerned with chasing cash.


Sadly...when membership turns over, the new Muirfield boys will want the prestige of holding an Open and will eventually knuckle under.  It wouldn't surprise me if Muirfield doesn't miss its slot!


Perhaps the more interesting question is when does the R&A start looking for a host replacement?


Ciao

[Peter Pallotta]

Niall - thank, I did not know that. My post wasn't meant to seriously comment on the HCEG decision, but to note the possible marketing opportunities (even though I can't imagine 'marketing' had much to do with anything).

Sean - you may be spot on; but until the membership does turn over, the old boys could use a new motto: "Si ulla est Caledonica ludere, ludere ad eos sancti Andreae"  (which I think means: If the rabble must play golf, let them play it at Saint Andrews!)

[Joe Hellrung]

Good for the R&A.  The club can do what it wants, but the public face of golf in GB shouldn't associate with clubs that exclude members based on genetics.   

[Niall C]

The Scottish Amateur doesn't involve public money/services so I doubt there'll be any political pressure.

Mark,


The Scottish Amateur is run by the SGU, or so I believe and the SGU recently had a bit of a forced merger/union/take over with the Ladies Golf Union. So even though the Chief Exec of the SGU, who forced that through, has now departed, I can't imagine that they will be too keen to go to a single sex club but you never know. That's politics with a small p. Now whether they get public money to host the event and therefore politics with a big P will be involved, I'm not sure.


Sean


I think you're right, maybe not with the timescale but I suspect this issue will be revisited in due course.


Niall

[Niall C]

Good for the R&A.  The club can do what it wants, but the public face of golf in GB shouldn't associate with clubs that exclude members based on genetics.   

Joe


Where do you stand on clubs that are mixed but are so exclusive (and expensive) that ordinary visitors can't get on but they still host major tournaments for one of the governing bodies ?


Niall

[Sean_A]

Niall - thank, I did not know that. My post wasn't meant to seriously comment on the HCEG decision, but to note the possible marketing opportunities (even though I can't imagine 'marketing' had much to do with anything).

Sean - you may be spot on; but until the membership does turn over, the old boys could use a new motto: "Si ulla est Caledonica ludere, ludere ad eos sancti Andreae"  (which I think means: If the rabble must play golf, let them play it at Saint Andrews!)

Well Pietro...the original argument seemed to be that in this day and age a male only club should not be allowed to host a major sporting event.  If clubs don't have this ambition then their policies don't matter....though I never quite understood this logic.  I bet that now and in the coming days the argument will shift to Muirfield being filled with chauvinist pigs.  The club took its medicine, but I bet that won't be enough for the shout it loud crowd.  Will we see the PR/PC attack creep ever forward to clubs which just want to sit in the back eddies of time and do their thing?  I hope all female clubs aren't treated in the same manner because that would be a travesty when we consider the difference required in course design between the genders.

Niall

And I would have no issue if the new boys want to alter membership policies. It should be for the club to decide...lord knows they don't need the cash and if they don't host The Open they will need even less cash 

I am waiting for the day when the USGA avoids ultra exclusive clubs based on money rather than anything else.  There is an entire raft of US clubs that would be in a world of hurt.  But then, I think the USGA recognizes this and is using more public venues.


Ciao

[David Davis]

A bit of a double edged sword this one.


I'm all for mixed clubs, but even so I really don't like mixed tournaments which we play nearly all the time at our club. With the tremendous difference between mens and women tees the course is not even a similar animal, not to mention half good playing women can hit it well over 220m with their driver.


Good for the HCEG to stand fast. As has been pointed out in previous threads there are also (even though few) all women golf clubs and you certainly don't see them permitting men nor any controversial around this arising.


A private club should by all means have rights to decide who it wants to let in or not. Hence the term "private". If they have no choice then it would not be a private club.

[MCirba]

Given Muirfield's incredible tournament history of producing great champions, my own sentimental feelings for the place, and the Honourable Company's historic role in the game of golf, the thought that The Open Championship won't be going back there saddens me.

Beyond that, it's a course that's virtually unique among links in terms of design, greatness, and dare I say fairness. 

While I'd never want to dictate what a private club should or shouldn't do, they've historically decided to play a very public role in the game of golf and sadly, it seems that role wasn't factored into the decision.   Or, perhaps it was.

Perhaps Mickelson's stirring comeback in 2013 will be a fitting finale to a great run, now sadly gone the way of the dinosaur.

[Jim Franklin]

Good for them.

[Jason Thurman]

Per reports, 64% of the club's voters were in favor of admitting women, while 36% were against. It takes a two-thirds vote to change the policy.


My guess is there will be another vote in the near future and we'll see Muirfield begin admitting women and reenter the rota.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Good for the R&A.  The club can do what it wants, but the public face of golf in GB shouldn't associate with clubs that exclude members based on genetics.   

+1

This feels like a win for both sides -- additionally those people who love golf architecture.

[Niall C]

Mark


I assume what underpins your comment on architecture is the belief that having the Open will lead the powers that be to butcher the course to make it a better test. Surely if there is one course that is as great as it is because of the Open it is Muirfield, no ?


Niall

[Sean Leary]

What is the over/under on how many of the 64% leave over this? THAT would be putting their money where their mouth is.

[Jason Thurman]

I love handicapping!


On the one hand, nobody who's a member of Muirfield can be THAT upset with the fact that the club doesn't allow female members. Given that this vote only maintains the status quo (for now), I doubt many will be upset enough to leave. So my first thought is that the over/under should probably be around .5%.


But, Muirfield is trending on Twitter right now. If the club catches enough stink that association with it becomes a PR issue, a handful of members might leave. And there's another handful who might leave if they feel that dropping from the rota is a hit to the club's prestige. So maybe 3% is a better number for now. We'll know more once we see what side Phil Mickelson puts his money on.

[Adam Lawrence]

Per reports, 64% of the club's voters were in favor of admitting women, while 36% were against. It takes a two-thirds vote to change the policy.


My guess is there will be another vote in the near future and we'll see Muirfield begin admitting women and reenter the rota.

I'm pretty sure you're right Jason. Wait a year or two, then put it to the vote again.