[Jonathan Mallard]

Because this deserves it's own separate thread!


Discuss!


http://www.golfdigest.com/story/pebble-beach-renovation-of-14th-green-underwaythankfully

[Tom_Doak]

The project will succeed or fail based on the execution.  But the green has been a mess for years; something needed to be done.

[Carl Rogers]

The article does say who or what organization is doing it?  Does anyone know?

[paul cowley]

I've written here a bunch on this green and its time has come...actually it came probably about 25 years ago.


As a test, if you can take a jeep and do a tight turn donut in the center of the green without going off, then it's big enough...or at least the same size it was 44 years ago.

[Joel_Stewart]

The article does say who or what organization is doing it?  Does anyone know?

I'm assuming it's Palmer and the work is being done in house.

[Tim Gallant]

The article does say who or what organization is doing it?  Does anyone know?

I'm assuming it's Palmer and the work is being done in house.

Yup, the GD article references Palmer & Co.

[Ronald Montesano]

"It's" is a contraction of "it" and "is," while "its" is a possessive.


That is what we're discussing, right?

[AChao]

I've got to think that whatever they wind-up creating, it will be better that what was there before.  Not that the original green was inherently bad, just that it must have shrunk and couldn't have ever been built in light of today's green speeds.

[James Brown]

The project will succeed or fail based on the execution.  But the green has been a mess for years; something needed to be done.

Amen.  Please fix this green!

[Ross Harmon]

That green was a real head scratcher. Glad it's getting attention.


My caddie last year told me his buddy made a double eagle on that hole. I said I'd really like to meet him!

[Ian_L]

Some pictures from May 28th:


Front left: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6mfEwrJVyxpNEJRWmg1Q1k2UTFjVUhDcVNrS1VMNHNTQzkw


Front right: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6mfEwrJVyxpanJ5QWI1WlE0TTJaOUs5OTFaZjNibUZkX0tZ


Right side: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6mfEwrJVyxpQzdTNk5JZ2NnSzU0WmFoWVRJTkx5ekN4VTFz


Back: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6mfEwrJVyxpeGhQSkREYWtjZGw4eHJwZHN4cG53UTN6am5Z

[V. Kmetz]

Hi,


I acknowledge the criticisms of this green over the last 20 years, but selfishly from a viewing perspective, I'm going to miss some of the "unfairness" of this green at the end of this hole.


It certainly seemed to put a psychological anticipation into my viewing of the Crosbys and Opens, and seemed to do the same for a number of competitors; I sorta came to view the hole (and the outcomes on the green) as a test of character for the field...who could best deal with the patent unfairness of such small pinnable area and the capricious results for slight misses ?


Again, I full well realize that such standards don't make for classic design or restoration plans, but I fear the hole will be marked by unfretted wedges, and boring tap-in pars when the best players play it.  I'm also apprehensive that going at it in two will have less consequence and meaning than it did before this recent effort, and eagles will be less of a true lightening strike than they have been for the last 30 years.


cheers
vk

[Niall C]

Only played it once just recently but on the whole I think I agree with VK. Take away the "unfairness" of the green and I'm not sure what the hole has left to commend it. For those that want it changed, what do you want in it's place ?


Niall

[BCrosby]

I haven't see the changes to the 14th green, but I too agree with VK.


Within limits, greens don't have a duty to assure you can two putt or get up and down from anywhere. Again, within limits, the possibility of 'unfair' outcomes can make a hole's reputation. Always 'fair' outcomes can do the opposite.


Bob

[Matthew Rose]

I played the course last week and took a million photos; this is what I have of #14 -  I don't know if you can deduce much from these but I remembered that there was a thread here about it. This was the first time I've played Pebble so I don't have anything to compare it to.

[Niall C]

Matthew
 
I’m not sure that is that much of a change other than extending the top deck/putting area. Does the false green part still deflect weak approaches towards the front left bunker ?
 
Niall

[Josh Bills]

Here is the approach from 2008, the green was part of the false front and the bunker was high enough you could not see the putting surface:





Here is from behind the green in 2008, much smaller surface and much more movement, including front to back slope over the bunker and severe false front.  I like the old version better, but for as much play as Pebble gets, I'm sure the larger green is healthier and there are more pin positions, but it does not appear as scary as before. 

[JESII]

We're about to neuter my dog as well...

[JESII]

Maybe to further clarify my thoughts; with this green, would I care if I had a 7 iron (as opposed to a wedge) into the green for my third shot? Nope...which means I won't care if I hit the fairway off the tee...


Good to see they softened long left as well so it truly doesnt matter...

[Matthew Rose]

The ball in the first picture is mine, and it was hit with a hybrid so it had some weight to it. It rolled a little backwards and left but stuck there.


I will say that the greens were holding extremely well and there wasn't a lot of roll anywhere on the course that day, so perhaps it would behave differently in drier conditions.


We also thought maybe the drop off the back wasn't as steep as before, based on our recollections.

[Blake Conant]

Looks like they took the knob off the top of the bunker which softened the front to back slope of the green.  They filled in the crotch of the false front and flattened out back left, too.  If the goal was softer and flatter they nailed it. 

[Tom_Doak]

I can't tell anything from the "after" pictures ... it looks very flat, but most pictures make greens look flat.


However, in the "before" pics that Josh Bills posted from 2008 ... I can tell you that the bunker lip and the front edge of the green in that photo are at least a foot and probably 18 inches higher than when I played the hole in the early 1980's.  It must have just kept getting built up with exploded sand from the bunker until it was severely sloped from front to back ... it did slope away from the bunker originally but very softly.

[Matthew Petersen]

I was in that front bunker when I played there in 2012 and it was one of the more fearsome bunker shots I've ever seen. Such a steep high bunker face and so little green to find beyond it, and sloping away. I hit a really good bunker shot and it still trickled into the fringe over the green.

[J_ Crisham]

Played PB this morning and I must say the 14 th green is still quite small and a challenge to hold with anything more than a wedge. It's improved but it is far from flat- in fact 2 balls in our group ended up rolling back down the slope on the right side and into the fairway. The target is just too small IMO .

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