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Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« on: May 02, 2016, 12:45:42 PM »
I have a love affair with Alister Mackenzie courses, but I had never realized he had some involvement with Burning Tree Club in Washington, DC till a friend mentioned that to me.  Sure enough, Wikipedia says that Mackenzie is attributed as the architect of the course there.
In doing some browsing on the subject in GCA, it seems that this is really a Colt & Alison course, but that Colt was little involved, and Alison turned over much of the work to their then junior partner, Mackenzie.
Can anyone shed some light on more of the history here?  How much of the Mackenzie work remains?  I have played the course once, but don't remember a Mackenzie feel.  What do club members think about this history?

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2016, 12:58:28 PM »
I don't know Burning Tree, but there is no question of any Colt on the ground involvement in a post WW1 US course -- he never returned to America after the war.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2016, 01:18:14 PM »
'
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 10:10:53 PM by Mark Bourgeois »
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2016, 01:26:06 PM »
So, Mark, is Wikipedia just wrong in attributing the course to Mackenzie?  It wouldn't be the first time.
I believe it was built in about 1920, so I understand that Colt was not there.  But wasn't Mackenzie working for them at that time--and was he possibly responsible for the project under the direction of Alison?
I think maybe Flynn's involvement came later?

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2016, 01:47:43 PM »
Mackenzie wasn't in the United States in the early 20's when Burning Tree was being organized, designed and built.  You can look at the timeline (http://alistermackenziefoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Alister-MacKenzie-Timeline.pdf) to verify.

Washington Herald - Aug. 1, 1922



Golf Illustrated - Jan. 1925




"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2016, 02:03:47 PM »
~
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 10:11:25 PM by Mark Bourgeois »
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2016, 02:04:53 PM »
Colt, Alison and MacKenzie were all partners then so they use all the names, but Alison was responsible for Burning Tree.  I played it a year or two ago, and it's a fine course, but nothing reminded me of MacKenzie's work.

Sinclair Eaddy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2016, 02:27:58 PM »
I think Tom is right. The extent of his contribution at BT was the firm letterhead of Colt, Alison & MacKenzie.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2016, 09:46:23 AM »
Interesting. The members I have played with believe MacKenzie was involved. 
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Anthony Gholz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2016, 11:38:07 AM »
Sven:  [size=78%]Good job as usual.  Your Wash Herald date for construction corresponds to a 1921design date that is the best I have so far thru Paul T.[/size]


Per a recent review of Colt's own office files in the Hurdzan Collection, Colt scratched out MacKenzie's name in January of 1922 on the list of partners and Scale of Professional Charges and Condition of Agreement.   Course credits is an issue I have with any magazine citation.  As a retired architect I'm very familiar with the "credits" issue.  The person who's name is on the door can take full credit for anything done in the office,  the lead designer may be given credit, or the corporate name can be used with everything and credit for actual work be damned. 


Therefore the design for Burning Tree in 1921 can certainly be credited to Colt, Mackenzie & Alison.  However, as mentioned above by Adam Colt left the US in the late spring 1914 and was back in England, arriving in Liverpool from Montreal, on May 18th.  He NEVER returned to the US.  Alison first came to the US in 1903 as a member of the Ox-Bridge Soc team, but as an architect and full partner of Colt's he came in the late summer of 1920 to set up the firm's NA office in Detroit.  His first efforts in 1920 were ongoing revisions for The CC of Detroit and the routing of the Port Huron (MI) Golf Club. 


[/size][size=78%]So in my listing I cite Alison as architect and use the corporate name in parens in design as CMA, and for completion as C&A.  Although as mentioned by Tom and others in previous threads the new corporation was not formed until 1928.  [/size]


The Flynn connection for construction is a certainty as Alison always went back to England for the winter and returned to the US in March almost every year from 1920 thru 1929.  If anyone can give us a date for Alison's actual arrival in America in 1920 I would be most appreciative.  It may have been thru Montreal or NY.
Tony

Jim Hoak

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2016, 06:28:01 PM »
This is all verified by the Mackenzie Society folks who say Mackenzie never came to the US till early 1926.  They agree with Tom Doak that the relationship with Colt & Alison was primarily marketing, but there were a few instances where Mackenzie reviewed some projects for Colt in England--and vice versa.  But all in England.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mackenzie and Burning Tree Club
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2016, 09:21:07 PM »
Interesting. The members I have played with believe MacKenzie was involved.


Well they would, wouldn't they?  😀