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David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Micro contours on greens / hate them?
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2016, 05:25:09 AM »
Archie,


It sounds to me like you will want to avoid everything in Continental Europe for all months except maybe July-Sept.


Our maintenance practices are very rough compared to high end privates in the US and 3 ft putts can break 10 ways with all the bumping around and uneven grass cut in most months of the year.


We are just finishing up National Team competition and there are cases where we will insist on seeing 2 ft putts or less simply because the green can contain bounces that throw the ball way off line, as in a straight putt missing the hole due to all the serious micro contours. ;-)


Micro contours on smooth rolling greens sounds to me like a luxury problem this early in the season.

Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Micro contours on greens / hate them?
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2016, 06:33:37 AM »
Micro Contours are not usally the problem in not being able to read breaking putts.


I can usually see the contours, even if they break twice, and I do enjoy trying to negotiate them.


My biggest frustration with not being able to predict which way putts break, is the inconsistency of the grass putting surface.


Recently I've played on Ultra Dwarf Bermuda Greens on a well maintained green and the ball invariably broke from it's line in the last foot. Yes I know it's the grain, but being a North Lander it seems to defy physics.


Then again Poa Greens are notorious in the afternoons for deflecting the ball in all directions.


The bent greens I played recently were so soft the foot prints round the hole affected it.


Worst of all if the hole isn't cut into the green properly and there is a slight volcano round the hole, then trickle balls will move away from the hole.


My best experience recently has been at Leuk in Switzerland which Jon knows well.


The pure Fescue greens at Leuk, which are notorious for their undulations, were tracking beautfully.
After a few putting adjustments it was pure joy to choose a line and watch the ball following perfect geometry and not being pushed around by imperfections.


So Archie is it micro undulations that are killing you or just green surface imperfections?


John,


glad to hear that the greens at Leuk are still as good as they used to be. I was always worried they would become the over watered disasters which can be found down the road at Sion.


Jon

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Micro contours on greens / hate them?
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2016, 06:40:30 AM »
 :D


David in my lone  trip to Ireland I didn't experience what you are talking about .  Perhaps I'm not explaining it well.  We have poa bent greens here at my home club which we greatly enjoy 12 months a a year .  I'm not talking bumps or playing conditions that aren't perfect . I'm talking deliberately constructing greens to have micro breaks that in my mind take away some of the skill in putting . They make you play it straight and smash it thru these mini breaks .  Akin to playing hold em vs gin .




Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Micro contours on greens / hate them?
« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2016, 10:24:57 AM »
I would suggest hitting it through these micro-micro-micro breaks you wouldn't want the different blade of grass impacting the putt either.
And I would also suggest that these greens you speak of are mowed to play too fast.
I've never seen a put break 3 times in 10 feet that wasn't wobbling.
And I'm with Joe - doubtful you can build them and get them to drain.
And I'm with Tom - Jeff B. how does a depression create more renovations?

Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Micro contours on greens / hate them?
« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2016, 10:27:14 AM »
:D


David in my lone  trip to Ireland I didn't experience what you are talking about .  Perhaps I'm not explaining it well.  We have poa bent greens here at my home club which we greatly enjoy 12 months a a year .  I'm not talking bumps or playing conditions that aren't perfect . I'm talking deliberately constructing greens to have micro breaks that in my mind take away some of the skill in putting . They make you play it straight and smash it thru these mini breaks .  Akin to playing hold em vs gin .


Archie, thanks. No I totally understand what you mean and I'm with you. Just these types of micro contours in my limited experience only exist when the greens are running fast which was my point, that rarely happens here in Continental Europe. I think you missed that key word, Continental in my slightly sarcastic reply. So I was purposely excluding UK and Ireland which of course aren't part of the continent but little islands that have defected (read broken off/separated) for a better way of life and to avoid largely having to deal with the French and Germans (Dutch and Belgians). There are a couple solid courses here in The Netherlands, I'm thinking of Hilversumsche Golf Club that has hosted the KLM Open for several years and when they speed up those old greens they are full of micro contours as you mention and a 3 ft putt really could break a couple different ways. I think that's mainly because the greens are so old and they have continued to settle unequally over the past let's say 100 years.


Have you ever experience new build greens that are full of these micro contours? I don't think I have. I also don't think they are noticeable in most cases until greens start rolling at around 10-11 ft min. So at 8 ft, 9 ft etc you would not really notice them.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 10:58:01 AM by David Davis »
Sharing the greatest experiences in golf.

IG: @top100golftraveler
www.lockharttravelclub.com

Jaeger Kovich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Micro contours on greens / hate them?
« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2016, 10:58:45 AM »
8)

p.s. jäeger and Jon ......I don't think your examples fit , I'm talking shorter putts with multiple breaks. Really not fun


Do you have an example of a green like this? I'm trying to think of greens with more micro contours and struggling.

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Micro contours on greens / hate them?
« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2016, 05:41:59 PM »
 ::)




Yes we have them here in the states , fast with tiny micro contours. I really don't see why they wouldn't drain either . We're not talking collection areas .


David , loved your answer .  Keep posting !