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Matt_Ward

Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« on: September 25, 2003, 06:36:44 AM »
During my visit to Wales I had the pleasure in staying at The Resort at Celtic Manor -- which will serve as host to the 2010 Ryder Cup -- the first ever played in Wales.

The facility has a few courses and the Wentwood Hills layout will be the layout that will host the Ryder Cup. How good is the layout? Well, the existing course (7,400 yards / course rating 77.0) is a Trent Jones design and it features all of the usual aspects one would associate with his designs. The greens are huge and there is a wide assortment of flanking bunkers -- many of which don't come into play but are simply artistic creations meant to draw the eye. The course is standard fare but really lacks the kind of imagination that far too often occurs with his designs that I have played.

The issue with Celtic Manor is that it somewhat mirrors what one saw with The Belfry. The "soul" of the course is directed more towards what Americans might find in the rolling land of Pennsylvania, Maryland or even West Virginia.

To be totally fair the facility will be making some sweeping changes to the course. The existing configuration is quite hilly at the start and at the end starting with the 13th hole right through to the end. Climbing those hills and getting gallery access and movement would likely prove to be quite vexing and as a result there will be major changes to the course.

I have been told that European Design Associates (?) will be involved with the work and there will be new holes at the start (#1 and #2). The existing 3rd -- a long downhill par-4 of 440 yards will be kept but a new tee box will be added and shifted from where it is now. The hole will also be changed from its present location to be the new 16th hole. The existing 13th -- a superb uphill par-4 that dog-legs right and then features a well-protected green will be kept but it too will be pushed further back and be played as the 15th.

Clearly, the ending holes 17th and 18th will be a major part of the conclusion of a round at Wentwood Hills and from what I was told they will be added along a hillside so that large galleries can be accomodated to watching any match that goes the distance.

The time frame for the changes will start later this year and should be concluded by 2005 so that visiting media and guests can play the course by time the '06 event is held at The K Club in Ireland.

It's unfortunate that big money is what really drives Ryder Cup selection. How nice it would have been if the event were at a more traditional course like Royal Porthcawl but that's more of a dream than a reality no matter where the Ryder Cup and many other world events are played.

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2003, 11:48:15 AM »

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2003, 02:59:24 PM »
Matt

Shall I forward this review to Sir Terry  ;)

I played the course on opening day.  The 13th is an interesting hole.  There's a high risk drive at the green option (a bit like that hole at Loch Lomond), did you go for it?
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Matt_Ward

Re:Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2003, 09:28:11 AM »
Paul Turner:

I don't believe what I said is really anything different than just about all of the people I spoke to when in Wales. I can say with confidence that the media people I visited the site with all believe that keeping the present course in its existing configuration for the 2010 Ryder Cup would have been a major league disaster given the hills and the inability to move gallery around. In addition the final three holes on the existing course are not that strong for such a heavyweight event.

The course is still a questionmark because of all the work that needs to be done. I didn't get very excited about playing it because when in Wales you just have to play the wondeful links courses that are scattered throughout the country.

Look, it's no big secret -- the Ryder Cup is all about the $$$$. The site selections are based on who has the deepest pockets to take care of the expenses and provide a little extra to the sponsoring group. The same mentality exists on both sides of the pond.

I would just like to see the bunkering styles totally changed to reflect something different than the flowery style that Trent Jones originally provided. The players at the Ryder Cup level need something that can provide some real punch because the course I played just doesn't have the necessary design pizzaz to excite those looking for something that is so uniquely Wales.

P.S. Regarding the 13th hole -- I hit a 1-iron from the back tees and a half PW to the green. I really liked the hole because you do have a range of options when playing it. It might even be possible to create a forward tee position and try to emulate what you see with the 10th at The Belfry. Since the hole wil now be the 15th it does make for exciting possibilities down the stretch. We shall see ...

Brian_Ewen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2003, 03:41:10 PM »
" It felt like I was playing up and down a skyscraper , hitting to the 15th floor and vice versa . There's nothing wrong with the course ( Celtic Manor's Wentwood Hills ) that global warming and a rise in the sea level by 60 feet would not put right. "

- New Zealander Greg Turner commenting on his withdrawl from the Welsh Open after only ten holes of practice.

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2003, 04:15:57 PM »
Matt

I'm sure you're aware that it was Trent Jr that built the current course.  The other two Roman Road and Coldra Woods are Trent Snr, but are more likely Rulewich (I think).

Did you hit the 1 iron straight at the green rather than playing as a dogleg right?  
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2003, 04:20:41 PM »
One quality that the course does have is setting.  Down in that valley by the River Usk, it is very pleasant.
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Matt_Ward

Re:Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2003, 04:51:06 PM »
Paul:

Thanks for correcting me on the architects. Yes, I did cut off a good section of the corner of the dog-leg because if you don't you can run out of real estate on the hole.

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2003, 05:19:52 PM »
Matt

Regarding the 13th. I'm still not sure if we're on the same page.  When I played it (5 years ago) there was an option to drive straight at the green i.e to the right of the tree line and carrying the stream with the tee shot; not just cutting off the dogleg.  A very big hitter could actually drive the green, although I never saw it done!
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Matt_Ward

Re:Ryder Cup / Celtic Manor 2010
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2003, 05:44:17 PM »
Paul:

If one could do that several years ago it reminds me of the story that Sam Snead would lay on Masters rookies about the 13th hole and the "option" in cutting off significant distance on that hole. Needless to say -- the trees had grown a bit higher.

To be totally honest -- I didn't think such an option was even remotely possible because of the close proximity of the trees that hang near the tee. It might be done but it's one of those golf situations I'd have to see to believe.