[Thomas Dai]

According to a comment on the clubs website the 175 yd slightly downhill and into the prevailing wind par-3 15th on the Holywell course, yes the Holywell course, might be the most difficult hole on the entire 36-holes on the St E property.


I read this comment with interest prior to a recent visit and curiosity made sure I played the hole....and it's a bit of a cracker. Here are some photos -


From left side mid fairway



From short left side



From over the back



From right side rear



Are length and/or bunkers really needed to make a terrific hole?


There are some very fine holes on the Holywell course, such as the short blind par-4 1st and the long par-3 2nd, whilst the closing stretch from the 14th to the 18th are very fine.


Thoughts on the 15th etc?


atb

[Ed Tilley]

Having made the effort to get to St Enodoc, I've never even considered playing the Holywell course, and I don't think I ever would. How big a step down is it from the main course?

That looks a very good hole. It certainly looks like a tough par but not an especially difficult bogey as the trouble seems to be slopes and swales rather than anything more serious. I like that type of hole very much. However, I can't see anything there that would put it in the same league of difficulty as the 10th or the 2nd or the 17th on the Church course.

Maybe it is the club talking up the difficulty / challenge to get more people to play it? Of course, as I haven't played it I could be talking rubbish as usual!

[Ally Mcintosh]

Have to say my impression is of a very difficult hole because the green is small, raised, not tilted towards the tee and has no backstop.

Holes on a lot of second courses can be like this. And Pitch and Putts. We all know P&P's where it is almost impossible to hold the green with your tee shots.

[Thomas Dai]

Easy bogey, difficult par, very tough birdie is a phrase I recall. Being into the prevailing wind the 15th plays longer than the yardage and with many humps and hollows in front of the green running the ball on may result in a somewhat unpredictable result.


The Holywell course, like the 2nd course at many of the higher regarded clubs in GB&I, is worth playing. Courses like the St Olaf at Cruden Bay, Annesley at RCD, the Channel at Burnham etc would also come into this category and whilst the Holywell is not quite at the level of these it is worth playing as a warm-up to the Church course. I believe some of the land that the Holywell courses lies upon was once part the main course, perhaps someone with some historic knowledge of St E could advise.


If I were fortunate enough to be a local residing member of St E I could envisage playing the Holywell course quite often. It might not be of the overall standard of holes 1-9 and 16-18 on the Church course but parts of it might, just might.......light the blue touch paper and retire behind a solid object a safe distance away.........be more enjoyable than playing holes 10-15 on the other course!


Atb

[James Brown]

Seems like the further you travel to get to a place like St. Enodoc, the less likely you are to take the time to play the second course.  For me, I just having a hard time rationalizing playing St. Olaf or the Struie when it means one less round on what is a a holy site for me. 

[Thomas Dai]

James, no slight intended but may I suggest you reflect on this approach. There are rather a lot of low cost to play interesting 2nd courses at prominent clubs out there with interesting architecture and playability etc. They may not be major stars, although some have quality to them, but if the other/main course is full or you want a warm-up the opportunity is there.


However, as Jeff W has mentioned a few times, the more folks that concentrate on biggies and 'name' courses the better/quieter it is for those who like little un's and no-names, courses where a great deal of interest is to be found, and normally found with easy access.


Each to their own though.


Atb

 

[Ed Tilley]

be more enjoyable than playing holes 10-15 on the other course!

Atb

Easy tiger....

You can slag off the 10th as much as you like but don't you go disrespecting the 14th - fantastic hole.

[Sean_A]

be more enjoyable than playing holes 10-15 on the other course!

Atb

Easy tiger....

You can slag off the 10th as much as you like but don't you go disrespecting the 14th - fantastic hole.

So is the 10th.  For that matter...the 12th is very good as well...and the 15th.  St Enodoc takes pot shots for these holes, but I have seen plenty of far less inspiring holes on champ links.


Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

From the safety of hiding behind the sofa whilst wearing a tin hat I would propose that the 10th is dangerous and inappropriate given todays society, the 11th is okay from the right hand rear tee, the 12th is a fine hole, the 13th is awful, the 14th is um 'interesting/unique' and the 15th is pretty much a twin of the 5th. I would travel a long way to play holes 1-9 and 16-18 and if courses only comprised 12-holes I would rave to the rafters about the Church. But, despite the great conditioning, the very friendly and welcoming approach, the quality of the light and the stunningly photogenic scenery I wouldn't travel to play the stretch from 10-15. Mind you many courses would die for 12 classy holes and 6 others. Sorry folk who love the place but that's MO. As I've said elsewhere before though, each to their own.


And the 15th on the Holywell. Terrific hole. One I would suggest is superior to the par-3's on the Church, apart from the wonderful 17th that is.


atb

[Ryan Coles]

Would be interested in what the worse second course is alongside the renowned big brother.

It's ten years since I played it but dornochs struie gets my vote.

Way too narrow and a really poor course on what should be a nice site.

[Jon Wiggett]

Ryan,


I am of a similar opinion. Struie has a lot of potential but is badly compromised by the set up and some of the outer holes though this would be easily fixed. I am somewhat surprised by the snobbery shown towards 2nd courses on this thread. Are there really some people who won't play a course if it is not a world beater? The main course at St. E is great and I enjoyed it immensely though did prefer the 10th when I thought it was a par 5   and did not like the 16th green complex though maybe that has now bedded in better now.


However, the thought that I would not play the 2nd course because it was not a world top 100 never crossed my mind. Surely there is a good chance that this course owned on the same club, on adjacent land will also be worth playing. Often, the difference is in the length of the course and the size of the greens not in the quality of the GCA.


Jon

[Sean_A]

The 10th will always be controversial both with the design (makes no difference if par is 4 or 5) and with the footpath which is the worst I have experienced with holding up play. I no problems with with the controversy of the shot requirements...the 10th is a classic easy bogey hard par hole...a half par hole on the strong side.  If we are going to praise half pars on the light side, it seems to me there needs to be half pars on the strong side.  I will take my dose of these which have character.  I do think the club needs to negotiate with the local authority to devise a system which is more give and go with the footpath rather than the situation there now. 
Folks that can't see the quality of #14 aren't paying attention.  Like #4, this is an extremely well designed hole using less than ideal land.  The relationship of the tilted fairway, sod wall and fall-away green is nigh on perfect...and again, full of character.  This hole would sit perfectly at Perranporth and that is a course I greatly admire. 

#13 is fourteen light and is easily the least interesting on the course. 

12 is a very good hole.  The counter position of the bunker right and hedge left is food for thought with a decepetively sloping left to right fairway.  Plus the raised green is very interesting and a tough target.

I understand the dislike for 11, but I like the flat, straight away hole after 10.  All courses need their ups and downs to make for a complete design.   

Jon...the old green for #16 was in a better position near the boundary....excellent risk/reward for going at the green in two.  Its a shame the club crumbled to the more distance crowd when the course doesn't really hold events of any consequence.

St Enodoc is firmly in my top 20 quality in GB&I.  Its much more than a pretty blonde. 


I usually don't play the 2nd course at places unless I have a day to spare.  I really dislike playing a course just to play it so I won't be rushed through the main show.  Over several visits, the second course usually gets a look, but they rarely impress enough to forego a game elsewhere.  That said, Formby Ladies is certainly an exception. 

Ciao 

[Thomas Dai]

With no footpath and without folks generally wondering around (Lost? Searching for signs?) the 10th would indeed be a wonderful hole, even more so if the rear of the green were beefed-up a bit (the rear is very bland). 11 from the left is a little uninspiring although to a tight left side pin this might not be the case (if you go chasing the pin that is) but from the right, where you must come in over the bunker, it's far superior. From the hollows in front of the 11th green I presume there were once more bunkers? The 12th, fine hole as Sean describes. 13, the best I can say is that it makes the most of pretty unsuitable terrain. Coming after the long climb up the 13th, when the legs are sore and the breathing heavy and the score likely more than you would have desired, may not do the 14th any favours but I respect the 14th and the well short left side embankment and green site are certainly unique and memorable, although a playing partner who had his ball just topple off the green and finish just inches from the base of the wall still curses the hole.
Atb

[Sean_A]

Yes, the 14th is a hole of much intrigue.  Not only is the approach tricky...the drive is hard to decipher.  You don't want to be left too far left, but its miles better than too far right!


Ciao

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