News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« on: April 17, 2016, 11:16:31 AM »
The final flyover:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqYNk7C2gnw

It will be interesting to see how all those open sandy waste areas are managed over time.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2016, 11:26:38 AM by David_Tepper »
Logged

Keith Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2016, 04:03:17 PM »
Gorgeous - I wouldn't have thought it was Fazio's work if I didn't read his name in the credits.
Logged

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2016, 04:14:54 PM »
Quote from: Keith Phillips on April 17, 2016, 04:03:17 PM
Gorgeous - I wouldn't have thought it was Fazio's work if I didn't read his name in the credits.


It's mostly Tim Jackson with some landscaping help from Ken Alperstein of Pinnacle Design.
Logged

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2016, 04:35:08 PM »
Logged

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2016, 06:57:54 PM »
David,


This is a fabulous video, and I love the blending of old and new.


I really appreciate Bob Huntley for exposing so many of us to MPCC, Cypress Point, his fantastic humor, his legendary and very rigged Wolf games :) and his "Noblesse Oblige". He is a fantastic guy and this reminds me that I need to reach out to him.


Thanks


Logged
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2016, 08:18:50 PM »
So when is the next Kings Putter at MPCC? ;D
Logged
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2016, 11:27:23 PM »
Quote from: David_Tepper on April 17, 2016, 04:35:08 PM
http://www.jacksonkahndesign.com/mpcc.html

Thanks for the link. The web site graciously lists all of the people involved. Maybe more courses and architects should do this?


GOLF COURSE CONTRACTOR: Medalist Golf, Inc.

. Jackson Kahn Design & Fazio Design .


JACKSON KAHN DESIGN TEAM
Tim Jackson
David Kahn
Scott Hoffman
Calan Hoppe

FAZIO DESIGN TEAM
Tom Fazio
Logan Fazio
Andy Banfield
Brian Courcelle

CONSTRUCTION SUPERINTENDENT
Ron Smith

SHAPERS
Jose Vivo
Pat Stewart
David Pritt

GOLF COURSE SUPERINTENDENT
Bob Zoller
Jason Conrad

LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT
Ken Alperstein
Logged

Mike Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2016, 08:28:17 AM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on April 17, 2016, 11:27:23 PM

JACKSON KAHN DESIGN TEAM
Tim Jackson
David Kahn
Scott Hoffman
Calan Hoppe

FAZIO DESIGN TEAM
Tom Fazio
Logan Fazio
Andy Banfield
Brian Courcelle

CONSTRUCTION SUPERINTENDENT
Ron Smith

SHAPERS
Jose Vivo
Pat Stewart
David Pritt

GOLF COURSE SUPERINTENDENT
Bob Zoller
Jason Conrad

LANDSCAPE ARCHITECT
Ken Alperstein


This is a very interesting post, and it is confirming evidence that we have basically gotten this entire process wrong as observers/advocates/nuts for years. My thoughts and questions are:


  • Of those 8 architects listed, how many did "in the field" work versus "in the office" work, and how was that "in the field" work split out?
  • Is the "Lead Architect(s)" actually an "Architect", or is he a "Producer" (see movie producers).
  • Who does Ron Smith report to?
  • How does the "Landscape Architect" fit in?
  • How does the team report to MPCC? Is it a person or committee at MPCC?
  • Based on the sensitivity of this environmental zone on the Monterrey Peninsula, why is there no "Environmental Engineer" listed? Was that handled internally by the team?
  • Would someone at MPCC be a better "Executive Producer" than any of the team members listed? My personal belief is that you need someone who understands the long term vision for MPCC, and that takes years to digest, understand, and protect. Obviously the bunkering does not look like historical Raynor bunkering, but it looks fantastic (to me).
This is NOT a critique of this listing. It is a complement to the thought process of listing this team and then it raises questions.


« Last Edit: April 18, 2016, 08:31:12 AM by Mike Sweeney »
Logged
"One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us."

Dr. Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2016, 09:34:13 AM »
Wow! That looks fantastic, I haven't really followed this project but the finished version looks spectacular.   

Also really good drone work  8)
Logged

Frank Kim

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2016, 09:41:52 AM »
It's interesting that there were people on this site ripping Fazio for what he was intending to do.  Now that the final product is out the credit is going to others.
Logged

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2016, 11:19:24 AM »
Logged

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2016, 11:22:10 AM »
It is strange to me that they had to redo the course in 2015 after Rees Jones redid the course in 1998. I would suspect that they wanted the Dunes Course to be more like the Shore course that Stratz redid.


I could not tell if the greens are really that much different from the flyovers I watched. How are the greens?




Logged

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2016, 02:02:57 PM »
Quote from: Frank Kim on April 18, 2016, 09:41:52 AM
It's interesting that there were people on this site ripping Fazio for what he was intending to do.  Now that the final product is out the credit is going to others.

There was never a question this was going to be a gorgeous eye candy site.   With the Fazio style and the sand dunes it was a no brainer. Since the course has not opened for play it remains to be seen if it's really great.

The problem is MPCC had a not so great Renoir and they had Peter Maxx paint over it.

The bigger problem which I have expressed is Fazio has shown a lack of morals and ethics for destroying classic golf courses.  He has repeatedly tried to modernize and alter classic architecture to his his own style and whim.
Logged

Josh Stevens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2016, 07:35:02 PM »
I especially like the way every bunker is surrounded by a nice neat little ring of first cut rough.  Very attractive
Logged

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2016, 08:39:55 AM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on April 18, 2016, 02:02:57 PM
Quote from: Frank Kim on April 18, 2016, 09:41:52 AM
It's interesting that there were people on this site ripping Fazio for what he was intending to do.  Now that the final product is out the credit is going to others.

There was never a question this was going to be a gorgeous eye candy site.   With the Fazio style and the sand dunes it was a no brainer. Since the course has not opened for play it remains to be seen if it's really great.

The problem is MPCC had a not so great Renoir and they had Peter Maxx paint over it.

The bigger problem which I have expressed is Fazio has shown a lack of morals and ethics for destroying classic golf courses.  He has repeatedly tried to modernize and alter classic architecture to his his own style and whim.


In fairness Joel, the golden age guys had no qualms about bulldozing what went before and sometimes that included work by their contemporaries. Because you don't rate Fazios work you shouldn't assume he doesn't believe in what he's doing, if indeed that is the problem you have with him.


Niall
Logged

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2016, 02:54:08 PM »
Quote from: Joel_Stewart on April 18, 2016, 02:02:57 PM
The bigger problem which I have expressed is Fazio has shown a lack of morals and ethics for destroying classic golf courses.  He has repeatedly tried to modernize and alter classic architecture to his his own style and whim.


A lack of morals and ethics, really?  It's immoral to redesign an old course?  Or unethical?


I am known for strong words, but the strongest I would use there is that Mr. Fazio does not particularly appreciate the classic courses, and is quite certain he can do better.


As for the credit reel listed above, it's not that you've got the process wrong, Mr. Sweeney, it's that some clubs can afford a lot more layers of management than others!  I have never heard of Calan Hoppe or Brian Courcelle, so I must assume that one or the other of them did the bulk of the drawing and rendering work.  ;)
Logged

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2016, 04:45:45 PM »
If you Google "Logan Fazio", I'm going to assume that's not the person from the Fazio design team.
Logged

Martin Lehmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2016, 03:07:00 AM »
Beautiful golf course and very nice video. I'm not sure about the bunker style though. I'm getting a bit tired of those rough edges. Highly fashionable these days, but in the end pretty boring and a nightmare from a maintenance point of view.
Logged

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2016, 08:54:09 AM »
Logged

Will MacEwen

Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2016, 08:18:10 PM »
Quote from: Tim Leahy on April 17, 2016, 08:18:50 PM
So when is the next Kings Putter at MPCC? ;D

Hard to beat Bandon. 4 great courses and no access obstacles.
Logged

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2016, 09:52:55 AM »
So just how is Huntley doing? One of the great moments in GCA history was his beat down of Stettner for wearing a hat indoors. I truly miss the man, Huntley that is. Poor kid didn't learn a thing even though I'm afraid that hat is covering a world of hurt.

http://tinyurl.com/gmh3h8a
Logged

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2016, 09:57:55 AM »
Logged
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

ward peyronnin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2016, 12:46:37 PM »
Is there a class of musicians who write the peppy catchy background tunes for these "action" videos?

Didn't see one mentioned on the credits
Logged
"Golf is happiness. It's intoxication w/o the hangover; stimulation w/o the pills. It's price is high yet its rewards are richer. Some say its a boys pastime but it builds men. It cleanses the mind/rejuvenates the body. It is these things and many more for those of us who truly love it." M.Norman

Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2016, 05:01:49 PM »
Quote from: Will MacEwen on May 03, 2016, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: Tim Leahy on April 17, 2016, 08:18:50 PM
So when is the next Kings Putter at MPCC? ;D

Hard to beat Bandon. 4 great courses and no access obstacles

No carts. :-[
Logged
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Will MacEwen

Re: Monterey Dunes Course "Unveiled"
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2016, 07:41:32 PM »
Quote from: Tim Leahy on May 06, 2016, 05:01:49 PM
Quote from: Will MacEwen on May 03, 2016, 08:18:10 PM
Quote from: Tim Leahy on April 17, 2016, 08:18:50 PM
So when is the next Kings Putter at MPCC? ;D

Hard to beat Bandon. 4 great courses and no access obstacles

No carts. :-[

I've seen an active NHLer using one. I think the cart policy is pretty liberal.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up