[David Davis]

I too just saw Riviera, in fact missed Ally only by a few days. Sorry Ally!


I absolutely loved it for many of the reasons you guys have already mentioned. Such a fun and unique starting hole with the peanut gallery right behind you. My experience on Kikuyu has been limited but the strain at Riviera plays to me so much different than the strain found at Naruo in Japan for example. Especially around and on the greens. I managed to putt the lights out at Riviera whereas I was hopeless at Naruo and left wondering what had hit me.


I simply love what the drought is doing to golf in Cali, now I'm not sure about Riviera and if it's always been set up firm and fast but it certainly was playing that way. There was a nice breeze and an 85-90 degree day. I thought the long 4's were all excellent and found myself being required to hit more shaped shots than normal. The approaches were tough required for my feeling a really wide range of clubs, I played my second best scoring round of the year so felt the course kind of brought the best out of my game. The approach to 2  was a real challenge even after one of my best drives. 9 was not too different in terms of feeling and for 18 after a strong drive I need a 2 hybrid to come in.


I admit to not knowing anything about the older version that Tommy mentions but I did take photos of most all holes and green complexes so might be able to to post a comparison if he only has the older versions. To me it doesn't feel at all like a F course but of course the bones aren't. I'd be very curious as to what they have changed.


I really like the bunkering and way the greens tie in to the surroundings. The usage of the land and features there is wonderful. The way Thomas works with the dry washes both there and at LACC is very interesting and adds a lot of strategy to those holes.


10 I played like a fool and got away with it. I went right at it against the advice of my host. Hit driver wanted to end up pin high left, faded the ball and ended up 40 yds short to a middle/left pin position. I walked up to the green to take a look at what there was to work with and there admittedly wasn't much as it's so darn narrow and then also has that front ridge and falls away from the angle I was coming in at. I got lucky and perfectly nipped a 60 degree wedge right at the pin that bounced once and then almost stopped but slowed down enough that the first cut stopped it just before rolling off. It left me in an ideal position and I made a 12 ft uphill putt with a little break in it for my 3. It's always better to be lucky than good.


If I had another shot I would play way left like John describes then you have a way better shot at a consistent safe score I guess. It's a scary hole and I was happy that I wait to study courses until after I play them the first time. Ignorance is bliss.


I think I was the least impressed with the 17th hole. The tee shot was pretty straight forward, green complex was solid. I noticed there was some extremely long grass on the right side but the fairway there also kind of sloped that way and the cart path was also there. Easy to get a bad kick and not necessary on a course like this to have ball losing rough in my mind even though the fairways are generous. The shot you would have from over there would be really tough anyway with the trees lining things up.


I'm certain what's been mentioned about Riviera with regards to receiving the same quality of love as LACC has in terms of the accuracy and thoughtfulness of the renovation are correct. There are trees that could be removed and some native areas that could be managed slightly differently IMO but the course is just amazing. For me on the Doak scale it's a solid 9 as is. It would not seem reasonable to me to rate it in comparison to how it once was. After all what would that do the the likes of courses like Augusta and Pine Valley to name a few not already mentioned. All will be considerably better without a lot of the trees etc.

[Jim Nugent]

I looked up the guidelines for Doak 7s and 8s, and found this:

7.  An excellent course, worth checking out if you get anywhere within 100 miles.  You can expect to find soundly designed, interesting holes, good course conditioning and a pretty setting, if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf.

8.  One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places and none in others), and worth a special trip to see.  Could have some drawbacks, but these will clearly be spelled out, and will make up for them with something really special in addition to the generally excellent layout. 

From everything I've read on this website, it seems to me 8 applies better to Riv than 7, especially based on the last part of each definition.  I've only seen it from the gallery, though. 

[David Stamm]

If going by the Doak scale, 8 would be fair. But as it sits in its present form, I could not place it higher. LACC North, in its present form, is superior, but not a 10 (although damn close). So.....

[Thomas Dai]

Even if someone put the wrong tires on something like this, it would still be at least a 9!   

If this is a 9 with even the wrong tyres on then there is hope for the Castle Course at St Andrews.😄


Riviera question - what do folks think of the bunker in the middle of the 6th green?


Atb

[Tim_Weiman]

I've played Riviera 3 or 4 times.  I think it's great, one of my all-time favorites.

The recent Confidential Guide rankings are 9-9-8-7.  I can't believe Darius Oliver gave it a 7.  It's nice and big; the rough is kept at a reasonable length.  You can hit driver with impunity.  The greens are tilted down to the bottom of the barranca in a way that confounds and delights.

Many would rather play Merion, but with the way Merion is maintained, with 4-6" rough, Riviera is more fun to play.  Plus, Riviera arguably occupies a unique setting for a great course.

It's interesting that the least discussed, or most criticized holes, are the long par fours on the south side of the property.  Nobody says much nice about holes 7, 8, 12 and 13.  There are few negative comments about any other hole, except perhaps the 1st hole, which some people regard as mundane.  Personally, I find the use of the little swale that cuts through the 1st and 11th holes to be perfectly placed, and I like the idea of a birdie hole to start the day.  And the first tee environment at Riviera is unbeatable.

I am less enamored with the 10th hole than those who consider it the greatest short par 4 in golf.  I think it's fantastic, but also think there are better ones.  If lowest score were always my goal, I would play the hole the same way every time, regardless of pin position.  Fairway wood way out to the left, sand wedge to the green, and hope for the best.

On the other hand, holes like 4, 5, especially 9, 14, 15, 16 and 18 are right down my alley.

John,


I'm curious about your comment on Riviera occupying a unique setting for a great course.


It is hard to argue with what you say, but I just wonder what you actually think of the setting.


Is it unique good? Or unique bad?


P.S. I'll give my own thoughts on the subject following your reply, including a comparison to another course - one of my favorite - that is kind of similar to Riveria from a setting point of view.

[John Kirk]

Hi Tim,

I can think of very few golf courses of any kind that are built in a large basin like Riviera, let alone any good ones.  In Sunnyvale, California, there is a 9 hole course that sits well below grade called Sunken Gardens, but I'm pretty sure it occupies an old quarry, or something like that.

I don't know Riviera's geographic story, but it looks like it is set in a wide water channel that drained into the ocean two miles away.

I really like the setting, which in many places looks to be 30-40 feet below the big houses that surround the course.  Even though you are actually in a fishbowl, the course gives a sense of isolation.

Here's one of the original bitch sessions about Riviera, complete with comments from some GCA Hall of Famers:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=4709.15

[John Mayhugh]

Riviera is in amazing condition these days. Greens are 11 everyday and firm, which makes them oh so small and really puts a premium on angles and placement. The green speeds really bring out the amazing design ideas and shaping put in place by Mr. Thomas and Mr. Bell. For example, it is so fun to use all of the different contours around the 6th green, both on the putting surface and off, to try to figure out a recovery shot if you find yourself on the wrong side of the bunker in the middle of the green. Just one of my favorite greens in the game.

Michael is not exaggerating.  Had the good fortune to be at Riviera today, and it is playing wonderfully.  The bunkering, ground contours and green tilt combine to make playing angles so important. 

I was on the wrong side of the bunker on 6 green, and had a fun time trying to figure out how to avoid a three putt.

I'm sure that the course could be improved with some changes, but it is so, so good as it is.

[Tim_Weiman]

Hi Tim,

I can think of very few golf courses of any kind that are built in a large basin like Riviera, let alone any good ones.  In Sunnyvale, California, there is a 9 hole course that sits well below grade called Sunken Gardens, but I'm pretty sure it occupies an old quarry, or something like that.

I don't know Riviera's geographic story, but it looks like it is set in a wide water channel that drained into the ocean two miles away.

I really like the setting, which in many places looks to be 30-40 feet below the big houses that surround the course.  Even though you are actually in a fishbowl, the course gives a sense of isolation.

Here's one of the original bitch sessions about Riviera, complete with comments from some GCA Hall of Famers:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=4709.15

John,


The course I have in mind is St Andrews Beach. Both sit fairly near the ocean (though SAB more so), but neither is about ocean views as they both sit in a valley.


IMO, neither Riviera nor SAB is about looking pretty. To the contrary, both are about golf shots that would be interesting to play over and over again. The setting doesn't interfere. The focus is all about playing golf.

[Bill_McBride]

Riviera is in amazing condition these days. Greens are 11 everyday and firm, which makes them oh so small and really puts a premium on angles and placement. The green speeds really bring out the amazing design ideas and shaping put in place by Mr. Thomas and Mr. Bell. For example, it is so fun to use all of the different contours around the 6th green, both on the putting surface and off, to try to figure out a recovery shot if you find yourself on the wrong side of the bunker in the middle of the green. Just one of my favorite greens in the game.

So...did you two putt, and if so, how?  😀👍
Michael is not exaggerating.  Had the good fortune to be at Riviera today, and it is playing wonderfully.  The bunkering, ground contours and green tilt combine to make playing angles so important. 

I was on the wrong side of the bunker on 6 green, and had a fun time trying to figure out how to avoid a three putt.

I'm sure that the course could be improved with some changes, but it is so, so good as it is.

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