Shot Clock in Professional Golf

[Jason Topp]

I think it is time for a shot clock in top level professional golf.  Baseball has succeeded in speeding up its game with several time limits for visits to the mound, pitching changes and the like and golf should do the same.

My thought would be that a player gets 30 seconds for each shot (not sure of how the start time is defined) and that rather than penalize for individual violations, the player would be penalized if he exceeded is total allowed time for the round.  For example if a player shot 70, he would get a total of 35 minutes to hit his shots. His time would be added for each shot and he would be penalized a stoke for every minute he exceeds his allotted time. 

The advantage of this system is that it would allow some flexibility for an especially challenging shot and it would reward players who play quickly by giving them more cushion to deal with unusual situations.  I suspect most players would adopt a strategy of pulling the trigger in 20 seconds or less so that they could take a long time in a tricky situation. 

The system is not perfect, given that players could slow walk to get to position but I would guess the system would need to evolve with experience.

Tracking a shot clock now seems reasonably possible (at least on the US PGA Tour) because of all of the tracking that takes place already through shotlink, radar, swing speeds, etc. 

[jeffwarne]

A good start.
rather than giving a player a total time that he can use for more thoughtful shots, he gets 3 time outs which give him an extra 30-40 seconds.
That way they have to save them and hopefully not use them at all, and keeps a player from banking a bunch of extra time on 2 inch putts.


Also, a clock is needed for players who don't get out of the way after they have played (say long enough for their shot to come to rest) + a reasonable time to walk out of way. Many slow players continue the delay for others by standing , holding finish and/or having a mini tantrum in the area of the next players play.


Of course there are many other ways to speed play but this would at least demonstrate to amateurs that all the nonsense isn't needed, or at least can be started before it's technically their turn.

[Jason Topp]

[quote author=jeffwarne link=topic=62860.msg1496199#msg1496199 date=1460472832

Of course there are many other ways to speed play but this would at least demonstrate to amateurs that all the nonsense isn't needed, or at least can be started before it's technically their turn.
[/quote]

Jeff - this is what I care about most.  The Masters is just as entertaining with 5 hour rounds as it would be with 3 hour rounds.  The problem is all of the people who copy what they see.

[Buck Wolter]

Something has to be done and that strikes me as better than most ideas -- maybe a max per shot and a 9 hole cumulative time?

Personally I think Jordan's collapse was good for him and the game as that fidgety, back-off and wipe the grip, pre-shot non-routine was the worst thing since Kevin Na. A composed, relaxed, fairly quick player winning the green jacket seemed like karma.

[MCirba]

I'd favor anything to end the horrendously slow play on tour that is then emulated by viewers.    I like Jordan Spieth and was rooting for him but he was absolutely painful to watch.   

There is no valid reason, ever, ever, ever, for a round of golf to take more than 4 hours.   

[Mark Bourgeois]

Whether this happens will be determined by the same thing that has led to introduction of shot clocks, rules changes and / or new modes in other sports: TV.

Part of the challenge there is, except for majors, TV does not need to broadcast the entirety of the round. It's as if the networks agreed to broadcast 3 hours of a baseball game rather than the entire game.

[Niall C]

Jeff


Actually I think it would be a good idea if players banked extra time by getting a bloody move on and just sinking the 6 inch putt without marking, picking up, cleaning, replacing lining up and then eventually playing the shot. They would need to be more economical with their time. The elaborate pre-shot routine would be edited so that the likes of Furyk and Spieth didn't stand up and address the ball 3 or 4 times before actually hitting it. They would maybe only do it twice  .


I also like the idea that caddies should be reduced to bag carriers only and that pro's be allowed to use distance devices if need be. I like this idea not just because it would speed up play, but also because it would take out the team "we" and let us see who the best player is, not who is best at reproducing their swing and with the best directions from their bagman. There should be more to golf than just hitting the ball.


Niall

[jeffwarne]

[  The Masters is just as entertaining with 5 hour rounds as it would be with 3 hour rounds.  The problem is all of the people who copy what they see.

I would disagree with that statement.
Watching Jordan stop, talk, practice swing, stop talk and repeat was NOT entertaining.
Kudos to him for hanging in there as well as he did with his B game but I would've preferred to have watched a few other players who were in the hunt and not ALL of his gyrations. especially on Saturday

[Mark Smolens]

Wouldn't be interesting at least if the network covering the event created the shot clock, superimposing it on the upper right hand corner of the screen? That way the slowpokes peers and the public would have visible evidence of the pace of play issues.

[Jason Topp]

Wouldn't be interesting at least if the network covering the event created the shot clock, superimposing it on the upper right hand corner of the screen? That way the slowpokes peers and the public would have visible evidence of the pace of play issues.

That was another method I thought about - simply publish total shot clock times.  My worry is that the "good" times would still be pretty bad. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

If anyone needs a shot-clock of sorts it's the broadcasters. CBS did a slightly better job than the norm by cutting away from slower players to show action on other parts of the course, then returning when the poke was finally ready to play.
Everyone knows who the dawdlers are. If TV was proactive, and never stayed on any player who was dithering around during his/her routine, it would create the illusion that all the players were moving around the course at a good pace. 
The viewers at home would 'see' more action and quicker play, which is an immediate positive, and that combined with better enforcement of the existing rules pertaining to slow play would eventually get the times down on Tour. It wouldn't even change the time slotted for viewing, events could still end when scheduled just by moving the starting times for all players ahead. 

[Matthew Petersen]

Wouldn't be interesting at least if the network covering the event created the shot clock, superimposing it on the upper right hand corner of the screen? That way the slowpokes peers and the public would have visible evidence of the pace of play issues.

I worry this would have a counter-effect, giving folks at home the idea that it's OK to take this long.


What really has to happen, more than a shot clock or anything else, is that the talking heads on TV need to be less accepting of it. Hell, half the time right now they praise it. I don't know who the guys doing feature group coverage for the Masters Thursday and Friday were but they were awful in many ways--perhaps the worst of which was that overtime someone backed off they thought it was a great move and even encouraged folks at home to take more time. I about lost my mind.


In a vacuum, I don't have a huge problem if pros take a long time to play. I find it really hard to criticize a guy who has millions of dollars on the line for backing off when someone in the gallery sneezes. But the trouble of course is that it's not a vacuum and too many people on a Sunday morning at home act like they have as much right to take their time as the pros do. That's on commentators. Faldo tweaked Spieth about his slowness a few times, but gently at best and Nantz always stepped in to defend him. We need guys in the booth who, at the absolute minimum, can say, "You know, he's taking a long time considering this shot and it's hard to blame him with the Masters on the line. But I hope everyone watching at home knows that if they took this long to play, they'd deserve to be thrown off the course." Just any little bit would help. Or, as I say, even just to eliminate the real idiots who not only praise it but encourage the weekend duffers to act like that, too.

[Kalen Braley]

With the goal of quicker times, 4 hours or less, and penalizing groups who didn't meet this...

It would seem stuff like lost balls, OB, taking walk of shame, getting a rules clarification, etc could not only submarine your time, but all the groups behind you. 

As for a shot clock, in other sports NBA, NFL, etc, its there for the competitors to see so they know how much time they have.  How would this be implemented on the golf course?  Would you have a guy following every golfer doing a countdown?  Don't get me wrong, I love the idea...just having a hard time seeing the practical application.

[Greg Tallman]

Spieth would be the first to pull a "Chris Webber" and get a penalty for calling a TO with none remaining. 

I love the kid but gracious he is imposible to wantch these days. His ball striking contributed to the nightmare this week. His stats are astuding for a guy that had title pretty much in hand late Sunday.

[jeffwarne]

Wouldn't be interesting at least if the network covering the event created the shot clock, superimposing it on the upper right hand corner of the screen? That way the slowpokes peers and the public would have visible evidence of the pace of play issues.

I worry this would have a counter-effect, giving folks at home the idea that it's OK to take this long.


What really has to happen, more than a shot clock or anything else, is that the talking heads on TV need to be less accepting of it. Hell, half the time right now they praise it. I don't know who the guys doing feature group coverage for the Masters Thursday and Friday were but they were awful in many ways--perhaps the worst of which was that overtime someone backed off they thought it was a great move and even encouraged folks at home to take more time. I about lost my mind.


In a vacuum, I don't have a huge problem if pros take a long time to play. I find it really hard to criticize a guy who has millions of dollars on the line for backing off when someone in the gallery sneezes. But the trouble of course is that it's not a vacuum and too many people on a Sunday morning at home act like they have as much right to take their time as the pros do. That's on commentators. Faldo tweaked Spieth about his slowness a few times, but gently at best and Nantz always stepped in to defend him. We need guys in the booth who, at the absolute minimum, can say, "You know, he's taking a long time considering this shot and it's hard to blame him with the Masters on the line. But I hope everyone watching at home knows that if they took this long to play, they'd deserve to be thrown off the course." Just any little bit would help. Or, as I say, even just to eliminate the real idiots who not only praise it but encourage the weekend duffers to act like that, too.

I'm always amazed that $$$ in tournaments justifies slow play. What about the money lost by quick players dealing with slow player's antics?
Of course everyone occasionally backs off or has a stutter-I know I do-but one must be aware and make up for on the majority of their other shots-for instance I take much less time on a putt or a bunker shot than I might on a tee shot-especially if I just had a stutter.
Sadly, the drawn out routine has become THE routine.(and glorified by CLUELESS announcers who then talk about growing the game )
Others justify it by saying they paid x $$$ to play a certain course. Why should they be allowed to ruin it for others who paid same $$?

[Jon Wiggett]

Good idea. If you are being penalised for being slow because of someone else then you are probably going to tell that person to buck up and play faster. Watching Spieth on Saturday was almost enough to make me give up watching golf on TV.

[John Kavanaugh]

Another benefit from getting rid of the caddie/coach is that most players would use trollies. As we all love to emulate the pros, we would then use trollies. More people walk, people live healthier happier lives. It's so simple.

[Jim Franklin]

[  The Masters is just as entertaining with 5 hour rounds as it would be with 3 hour rounds.  The problem is all of the people who copy what they see.

I would disagree with that statement.
Watching Jordan stop, talk, practice swing, stop talk and repeat was NOT entertaining.
Kudos to him for hanging in there as well as he did with his B game but I would've preferred to have watched a few other players who were in the hunt and not ALL of his gyrations. especially on Saturday

I like Jordan but was thrilled he lost. He was so slow I started cheering against him which is unfortunate because he is a nice guy and mostly good for the game. The back and forth with his caddie was off-putting.

[Jason Topp]

As for a shot clock, in other sports NBA, NFL, etc, its there for the competitors to see so they know how much time they have.  How would this be implemented on the golf course?  Would you have a guy following every golfer doing a countdown?  Don't get me wrong, I love the idea...just having a hard time seeing the practical application.

I do not think it would be difficult to manage.  Shotlink might be used.  For major events, I believe there are officials with many, if not most of the groups right now who have experience timing players on the clock.  You could have a video booth that does the timing.  It would seem to me that the ideal approach would be to have an official there because that approach comes closest to the approach in effect now.   

I do think there should be a clock visible so that the player and the audience knows where the player sits. 

My hope would be that the clock would become a non-issue because players will figure out strategies for avoiding the stress of coming close.   

[BHoover]

Just let the officials assess a stroke penalty the first time any player falls out of position. Exceptions can be made for rulings and other circumstances, but no more warnings. Just add a stroke for each bad time.

[K Rafkin]

In the game of golf one player in a four ball on the 15th green can effectively slow down place of play to a crawl for those standing on the 1st tee, and all those in between.  All it takes is one person.


This is as true for a professional as it is for a weekend warrior.

[Jason Topp]

Just let the officials assess a stroke penalty the first time any player falls out of position. Exceptions can be made for rulings and other circumstances, but no more warnings. Just add a stroke for each bad time.

I do not like this approach.  To me the game of golf is a game where time is ideally irrelevant - like baseball. 
If you time each shot, a rigid rule fails to take into account situations where a crowd distracts a player, the wind gusts, a terribly difficult strategic decision needs to be made or the player is choking and is struggling to get his butterflies in formation. 

My idea would allow leniency for those situations but incentivize players to play very quickly for other shots to bank time. 

[John Kavanaugh]

The one thing I hate about the original concept is that players shooting a lower score get less time to finish a round. I have a buddy who shoots 100's who like to gig me about being slow. We'll spend up to 5 holes a day looking for his lost balls and watching him chunk chips. On the one hole where he finds his drive and hits the green he stands hands on hips waiting for us to catch up. Sure he hits the ball fast, he hits it so many times that if he didn't he'd never get done.


Give people so much time to finish a hole, not so little time to hit each shot. After 10 minutes on a hole have them pick up and take a double.


Pay officials $1000 then deduct $100 for every minute they take to make a ruling, including travel time.

[John Kavanaugh]

Under the 30 second shot rule Ernie Els would have had time to build a scaffold and hang himself without penalty prior to reaching the tee at Pink Dogwood.

[Jason Topp]

Under the 30 second shot rule Ernie Els would have had time to build a scaffold and hang himself without penalty prior to reaching the tee at Pink Dogwood.

I think he earned the time in that instance.