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Dave McCollum

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2016, 12:36:46 AM »
Love to tell the story, but I can't.  It wouldn't be fair to the member or the club.  I'm not a trophy hunter.  Just a golfer with a bit of an architecture hobby.  As I implied, I probably would now, although I'm still not sure of my motivation now that I'm aware of what I passed up.  I'm an moron, perhaps, but I've done worse.  I once passed on an invitation to see Citizen Kane with William Randolph Hearst III.  Farm boy ignorance that I'm still trying to mitigate.       

Sean_A

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2016, 03:51:47 AM »
Okay, I am guessing that 400 rounds is played each year in coneection with The Masters.  If play is 95% member based, tht means roughly 8000 rounds are played per at Augusta.  Given the course is closed for at least 1/3 of the year; that means Augusta is doing 1000 rounds per open month.  I was under the impression the number of rounds was much less than that.   

Ciao



Sean, I believe it is a lot more than 1000 per month. That would be 33 per day. My guess is that it is a lot more than that, but it is based on just a few data points. Also, that is not counting that a lot of folks play 27 or 36 per day.

Thats two more data points than I have!  Though I am very surprised because like Pietro said I always thought Augusta had few members, many lived away and weren't encouraged to visit.  So the numbers, if Chappers is right (and I admit thinking 400 Masters connected rounds was a very conservative number) with 1000, that means Augusta does 20,000 rounds in 7ish months by your percentage.  Does that seem about right (seems very high to me)?  Though now we are getting into muni numbers :D

While I can understand the hesitancy of some people to fully embrace Augusta, I don't either, but it is the ONE course I would do all I can to play if given the opportunity.  Augusta is more than a course...its The Masters.  For me, the experience of a well known place is just as important as the golf.  Perhaps the full R&A treatment at TOC is up there, but certainly nothing else in the world can touch Augusta. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: April 13, 2016, 04:12:35 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ben Sims

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2016, 08:51:25 AM »
Some of the comments here shock me. How can one dislike a place they have never been to nor ever want to go there? And if given the opportunity to play there, who would be crazy enuf to turn that down??

If bagging on Augusta is cool, consider GCA Miles Davis.

Jason Thurman

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2016, 09:30:28 AM »
Some of the comments here shock me. How can one dislike a place they have never been to nor ever want to go there? And if given the opportunity to play there, who would be crazy enuf to turn that down??

If bagging on Augusta is cool, consider GCA Miles Davis.


I wish we had a Like button for this post, but not as much as I wished we had one when you dropped a Peter Sagan reference a day or two ago...
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Sean_A

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2016, 09:46:09 AM »
Some of the comments here shock me. How can one dislike a place they have never been to nor ever want to go there? And if given the opportunity to play there, who would be crazy enuf to turn that down??

If bagging on Augusta is cool, consider GCA Miles Davis.


I recently played golf with two 50 something Brits who had never heard of Miles Davis or John Coltrane :-\

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Andrew Buck

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2016, 10:13:09 AM »
Obviously Augusta has a national membership, but is there any Augusta area contingent?  If so, is the local area more heavily represented in the older membership as opposed to the "younger" membership?

Sven Nilsen

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #31 on: April 13, 2016, 10:35:15 AM »
Some of the comments here shock me. How can one dislike a place they have never been to nor ever want to go there? And if given the opportunity to play there, who would be crazy enuf to turn that down??

If bagging on Augusta is cool, consider GCA Miles Davis.


I recently played golf with two 50 something Brits who had never heard of Miles Davis or John Coltrane :-\

Ciao

In some circles, that makes them even cooler.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Niall C

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2016, 11:08:43 AM »


I recently played golf with two 50 something Brits who had never heard of Miles Davis or John Coltrane :-\

Ciao



Sean


Perfectly understandable if there not into football that much. They probably wouldn't know the names of many players beyond there local team.


Niall

Kalen Braley

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2016, 11:23:30 AM »
Cary,

With the exception of Dave McCollum, whom I genuinely believe, I suspect the rest is the reverse psychology GCA trick....

Bash, criticize, and claim you'd never go to course X....in hopes someone will be determined to change your mind and give you an invite to go.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2016, 11:31:06 AM »
Some of the comments here shock me. How can one dislike a place they have never been to nor ever want to go there? And if given the opportunity to play there, who would be crazy enuf to turn that down??

If bagging on Augusta is cool, consider GCA Miles Davis.


I recently played golf with two 50 something Brits who had never heard of Miles Davis or John Coltrane :-\

Ciao

In some circles, that makes them even cooler.


The circle of philistines?  That sounds harsh, but jeepers.  Its one thing to not know any Davis/Coltrane music, but quite another to not know who they were. 


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

MClutterbuck

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2016, 01:14:04 PM »

-----


I was thinking over the weekend that Augusta might truly be the ideal course, suitable for play by lesser golfers and pros alike.


Not sure I'd accept the word of anyone who says otherwise...


 :)


Can´t agree with you more.

MClutterbuck

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #36 on: April 13, 2016, 01:19:46 PM »
I was under the same impression that Sean was. For some reason I thought that members were politely discouraged from playing the course too often -- and that those who seem like they would want/need to play it too often aren't likely to be offered memberships. But it appears that, like Rick who went to Casablanca for the waters, I was misinformed. Btw, put me down as someone who would highly prize a visit; if I had a bucket list, which I don't, Augusta would be on it.  I know it is an inland course, and it has most of the markings of an inland course, but for the life of me I can't think of another inland course in America that looks (and looks to play) anything like it.
Peter   


I do not think you were misinformed with respect to how often members are encouraged to play. It is still busy, as most members that come, bring 3 guests. I believe they are even allowed to bring 7 guests for a certain week or 2 per year.

MClutterbuck

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2016, 01:37:51 PM »
I'm curious about something. Jim Lucius, our longtime DoG at Olympic played Augusta more than 25 times over the years. His contention was that from the Member Tees, it is "essentially a par-68 golf course."

Supposedly, although the senior members and shorter hitting guests struggle with the upslopes and taking advantage of the downward tumble of some fairways, a reasonably good single-digit handicapper can reach all the par-5s in two - and with an experienced caddie can negotiate the slower green speeds without too much trouble.

Truth be told, I've little incentive or interest in playing the golf course beyond just saying I've done it. One of these days I would like to attend a Masters practice round to see the slopes and especially study the putting surface contours - but teeing it up is not really on my bucket list.

I count nearly 25 friends who've played Augusta and of the 15 or so whose opinions I respect, NOT ONE has ever told me it is their favorite golf course. Not the experience, the golf course itself.

It is fashionable around here to diss on Augusta National - which may or may not be valid - but while watching the final round thrills and spills is incredibly entertaining, the only holes that wiggle my giggle are #10-14, 16-17. The rest looks pretty uninspired aside from the wildly contoured greens.

Never been there, so I'm talking out my ass, but if I can choose where Scotty beams on a sunny June afternoon, Augusta National is not even on the first page.             
 


Gib,


I have been on a different side of an argument relating to the 15th, where I was defending it as not an excessively penal hole for a 12 handicap. But your statement about all par 5´s being essentialy par 4s is plain wrong. While all par 5s might be reachable in 2 by the longer hitters, they require two perfect shots from difficult lies, with very bad consequences on 13 and 15 for less than great shots.


While for me too it might not be the best course I played, it is very close to the best and it is by far the best golf experience I have had anwhere in the world. And where I have felt most welcome by nice, down to earth members that are proud of their club and happy to have you as their guest. The ANGC experience is not only a 10 out of 10, it is a 100 out of 100.


With respect to the holes you do not find exciting, I can only suggest you attend a practice day of the Masters. Hole 1 (challenging tough green to  putt and hold an approach), 2 (great driving hole and a lovely second shot), 3 (challenging wedge and putt), and 4 are all fantastic for different reasons. The tee shot on 6 is unbeliavable. 8 and 9 are lots of fun. And you left out 15, a great par 5 for amateurs.


After reading you, I am tempted to stop saying it is not the absolute best course I have played, because it is just unfairly negative towards ANGC and maybe even arrogant. No golfer that has the chance should pass on the opportunity to visit the Masters or play the course.

Gib_Papazian

Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2016, 02:14:11 PM »
Now look kiddies, did I declare a philosophical aversion to playing Augusta National? Did I mount my soapbox and vow to turn down an invitation to play it - with a sniff and indifferent wave of the hand? Did I say the golf course is an overrated piece of shit? Nope. All I am asserting is an unwillingness to perform fellatio on an aging blue hair to take a few divots on their hallowed ground.

In the interest of full disclosure, some years ago I was invited to play Augusta as a guest to fill out a foursome. To do so would have required taking a red-eye to Atlanta, driving straight to Augusta and then having to come home the next day. So, I politely declined. My life went on as before and it is not even on the third page of regrets for things that might have been.

My father, who was a raconteur on the order of the movie Big Fish, used to chide me about my complaints of being too busy to do this or that with rolled eyes and “If it was a tee time at Cypress Point, you’d find a way, even from a jail cell.”

That statement - like most everything else he ever lampooned with  - is still 100% true. However, it was *not* worth it to kill myself to fly 2500 miles to play Augusta National on a moment’s notice. That stated, if Mucci or Normoyle called and invited me to be on the 1st tee of PV or NGLA tomorrow afternoon, well, I’d be there - even having played both several times.

I’d also like to clarify a previous comment. True enough that 15 friends all agreed Augusta was not their *favorite* golf course, but not one stated it was an overrated goat track. Every single one of them marveled at the width the breadth, the severity of the slopes and the insanity of the putting surfaces. However, all of them are extremely well-traveled, have ionospheric knowledge of golf architecture and mostly impervious to starry-eyed awe at arrangements of grass and sand.

There is also a sub-set of my friends who have played Augusta that returned with messy underwear, hyperventilating about the sparkling wonder of the place. One of them - reasonably well traveled, but who doesn’t know Alister Mackenzie from Mackenzie Phillips - proclaimed it the most exciting day of his life. I’m sure his oldest child is thrilled to know his birth was supplanted by a club so insufferably stodgy, the members would likely refer to him as a Bronx guinea. I’m guessing they don’t even allow Armenians there as gardeners, let alone members.

Putting aside my snarky editorializing, when I finally get there, I’ll surely be dutifully impressed - but let’s face it, is Augusta more beautiful that Cypress Point? Probably not.  Is it more strategic than NGLA? Is it more majestic than County Down? Is it more historic than St. Andrews? Is it 18 straight fantastic golf holes without a single weakness like PV?

Just asking.

P.S. And for the record, I did not assert the par-5s are all reachable; out of curiosity I asked if our ex-DoG was correct or not. Evidently, there is some disagreement - although it is possible the regular tees were further up in those days. I have no idea. 

 
« Last Edit: April 14, 2016, 11:13:29 AM by Gib Papazian »

Peter Pallotta

Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2016, 02:41:05 PM »
Gib - a favour please: if you ever DO play Augusta, I hope you can include a detailed description of HOW you gained access in your report. I do not want to go through my days imagining an alternative scenario...
Peter


jeffwarne

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2016, 04:27:41 PM »
Gib,
Your DOG is correct.
All par 5's are easily reachable from member tees-which really aren't even longer than they used to be.


My guess would be that every par 5 at nearly every iconic course would be easily reachable from member tees.
Heck NGLA had two on the front nine that were short iron reachable from the BACK tees until they awkwardly converted 5 to a par 4,
so I can't even imagine it from the member tees.
 But I really don't see why a pro's opinion of a course from the member tees is relevant.


I love NGLA-one of my favorites-but I wouldn't say it's more strategic than ANGC-other than the now driveable par 4's which weren't originally designed for that to be the case.Under that logic, I guess ANGC is more strategic now that technolgy has made 3 driveable-it never was before
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2016, 04:51:41 PM »


P.S. And for the record, I did not assert the par-5s are all reachable; out of curiosity I asked if our ex-DoG was correct or not. Evidently, there is some disagreement - although it is possible the regular tees were further up in those days. I have no idea. 

 


I dont think you said they were reachable, but did imply they were not real par fives. And I did not say they are not reachable, in fact I have reached most. I did say all par 5s required very well struck shots to land on the green (and stay on the green) in 2.


At 515 yards, the downhill 2 is the longest, so clearly reachable even in winter conditions and (I believe) higher cut of fairways.  Eight is not short uphill.


At 455 and 475, they are multiple reasons to lay up on 13 and 15 following good drices, and they are true, strategic par 5s. Remember you would be hitting a fairway wood or hybrid from an awkward stance on 13 at least, and that short or long on 15 is a problem, and most amateurs would have a higher length deviation from mean than pros.

Tim_Weiman

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2016, 08:47:35 PM »
I'm curious about something. Jim Lucius, our longtime DoG at Olympic played Augusta more than 25 times over the years. His contention was that from the Member Tees, it is "essentially a par-68 golf course."

Supposedly, although the senior members and shorter hitting guests struggle with the upslopes and taking advantage of the downward tumble of some fairways, a reasonably good single-digit handicapper can reach all the par-5s in two - and with an experienced caddie can negotiate the slower green speeds without too much trouble.

Truth be told, I've little incentive or interest in playing the golf course beyond just saying I've done it. One of these days I would like to attend a Masters practice round to see the slopes and especially study the putting surface contours - but teeing it up is not really on my bucket list.

I count nearly 25 friends who've played Augusta and of the 15 or so whose opinions I respect, NOT ONE has ever told me it is their favorite golf course. Not the experience, the golf course itself.

It is fashionable around here to diss on Augusta National - which may or may not be valid - but while watching the final round thrills and spills is incredibly entertaining, the only holes that wiggle my giggle are #10-14, 16-17. The rest looks pretty uninspired aside from the wildly contoured greens.

Never been there, so I'm talking out my ass, but if I can choose where Scotty beams on a sunny June afternoon, Augusta National is not even on the first page.             
 


Gib,


I have been on a different side of an argument relating to the 15th, where I was defending it as not an excessively penal hole for a 12 handicap. But your statement about all par 5´s being essentialy par 4s is plain wrong. While all par 5s might be reachable in 2 by the longer hitters, they require two perfect shots from difficult lies, with very bad consequences on 13 and 15 for less than great shots.


While for me too it might not be the best course I played, it is very close to the best and it is by far the best golf experience I have had anwhere in the world. And where I have felt most welcome by nice, down to earth members that are proud of their club and happy to have you as their guest. The ANGC experience is not only a 10 out of 10, it is a 100 out of 100.


With respect to the holes you do not find exciting, I can only suggest you attend a practice day of the Masters. Hole 1 (challenging tough green to  putt and hold an approach), 2 (great driving hole and a lovely second shot), 3 (challenging wedge and putt), and 4 are all fantastic for different reasons. The tee shot on 6 is unbeliavable. 8 and 9 are lots of fun. And you left out 15, a great par 5 for amateurs.


After reading you, I am tempted to stop saying it is not the absolute best course I have played, because it is just unfairly negative towards ANGC and maybe even arrogant. No golfer that has the chance should pass on the opportunity to visit the Masters or play the course.


One build on your Augusta is a "100 out of 100" comment.


Several years ago I was the guest of a company with long time connections to Augusta during the Masters. During cocktail hour, my marketing contact introduced me to another company rep. We started talking about Augusta and golf architecture.


Believe me it was a conversation that could have been held right here on GolfClubAtlas complete with criticisms of changes that have been made to the course and comments about Augusta's potential role and failure to address the golf ball technology issue.


This other company rep couldn't have been nicer and more interested in the architecture issue.


Little did I know. The guy was the company CEO, a member at Augusta and a perfect, quite down to earth gentleman.


Apparently, the CEO was also thrilled I didn't know who he was and that we could have such an open and honest discussion about the golf course.
Tim Weiman

Sven Nilsen

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2016, 02:19:20 AM »
Some of the comments here shock me. How can one dislike a place they have never been to nor ever want to go there? And if given the opportunity to play there, who would be crazy enuf to turn that down??

If bagging on Augusta is cool, consider GCA Miles Davis.


I recently played golf with two 50 something Brits who had never heard of Miles Davis or John Coltrane :-\

Ciao

In some circles, that makes them even cooler.


The circle of philistines?  That sounds harsh, but jeepers.  Its one thing to not know any Davis/Coltrane music, but quite another to not know who they were. 


Ciao


Reverse who you think "them" referred to.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #44 on: April 14, 2016, 10:26:46 AM »
Reverse who you think "them" referred to.


This deserves a Judge Smails "Ah. Ho ho."

Michael Graham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #45 on: April 14, 2016, 10:46:40 AM »
..."All I am asserting is an unwillingness to perform fellatio on an aging blue hair to take a few divots on their hallowed ground."
[/size]
[/size]I wonder if there is a golfer out there who owes his access to ANGC to this method. [/color] ;D

Kalen Braley

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Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #46 on: April 14, 2016, 12:00:01 PM »
..."All I am asserting is an unwillingness to perform fellatio on an aging blue hair to take a few divots on their hallowed ground."
[/size]
[/size]I wonder if there is a golfer out there who owes his access to ANGC to this method. [/color] ;D

I doubt it.

Any blue hair who can get in at Augusta can easily afford a proper service if needed/required.   ;)

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #47 on: April 14, 2016, 12:44:48 PM »
I'm curious about something. Jim Lucius, our longtime DoG at Olympic played Augusta more than 25 times over the years. His contention was that from the Member Tees, it is "essentially a par-68 golf course."

Supposedly, although the senior members and shorter hitting guests struggle with the upslopes and taking advantage of the downward tumble of some fairways, a reasonably good single-digit handicapper can reach all the par-5s in two - and with an experienced caddie can negotiate the slower green speeds without too much trouble.

Truth be told, I've little incentive or interest in playing the golf course beyond just saying I've done it. One of these days I would like to attend a Masters practice round to see the slopes and especially study the putting surface contours - but teeing it up is not really on my bucket list.

I count nearly 25 friends who've played Augusta and of the 15 or so whose opinions I respect, NOT ONE has ever told me it is their favorite golf course. Not the experience, the golf course itself.

It is fashionable around here to diss on Augusta National - which may or may not be valid - but while watching the final round thrills and spills is incredibly entertaining, the only holes that wiggle my giggle are #10-14, 16-17. The rest looks pretty uninspired aside from the wildly contoured greens.

Never been there, so I'm talking out my ass, but if I can choose where Scotty beams on a sunny June afternoon, Augusta National is not even on the first page.             
 


Gib, I just saw the news that Lynn Swann is the new AD at USC and since you are a high level USC athletic supporter, and he's an Augusta member, you should be a shoe in for a round there!

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #48 on: April 14, 2016, 12:59:02 PM »
Gib, I just saw the news that Lynn Swann is the new AD at USC and since you are a high level USC athletic supporter, and he's an Augusta member, you should be a shoe in for a round there!


Time to trot out my Lynn Swann story:


My mom, who is an angel walking the earth, was at the Pittsburgh Airport with my dad and sister. They were walking past the various gates, and she saw Lynn. She said, hey, there's Lynn Swann! Hi Lynn! And he turned and smiled and politely said hi.


Every true Pittsburgher recognizes and loves Lynn. :)


-----


The discussion of Augusta on here has always baffled me. Seems driven by far more than architecture. And that's sad, for an architecture site.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Phil McDade

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WHO PLAYS AUGUSTA?
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2016, 05:11:19 PM »
Gib, I just saw the news that Lynn Swann is the new AD at USC and since you are a high level USC athletic supporter, and he's an Augusta member, you should be a shoe in for a round there!


Time to trot out my Lynn Swann story:


My mom, who is an angel walking the earth, was at the Pittsburgh Airport with my dad and sister. They were walking past the various gates, and she saw Lynn. She said, hey, there's Lynn Swann! Hi Lynn! And he turned and smiled and politely said hi.


Every true Pittsburgher recognizes and loves Lynn. :)


-----


The discussion of Augusta on here has always baffled me. Seems driven by far more than architecture. And that's sad, for an architecture site.


And I thought this Cleveland Browns fans could go at least a few more months without someone invoking all that ails our team (i.e., that the league's second-best franchise resides just down the interstate).


George -- I'm not terribly surprised at the GCA take on Augusta -- this is a crowd, after all, that prefers brown to green, naturally evolving to forced changes, width over length, and tends to sneer at tournament golf not played in the U.K. or Australia.


What's always interested me is that Augusta -- according to those who have played there -- still maintains a degree (many of them, in fact, if what we read is correct) of those values: if not the firmest course in the world, it seems plenty firm; if less wide than in previous incarnations, it seems pretty wide compared to most courses; it seems to require thoughtfulness about how to approach playing it (we here at GCA, I've noticed, tend to believe in the religion of playing golf backwards, i.e., green placement, pin positions, and green contours ought to dictate how one approaches a hole off the tee ((see Doak, Tom, and basically everything he espouses)) ). Augusta has always struck me as a pretty strategic golf course, which may be one of the defining values of this board.


But I do think the tournament, and how it's presented on TV, and the accommodations it has made for the modern game, influence views around here.



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