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BCowan

Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2016, 07:05:05 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on April 10, 2016, 07:00:13 PM
It's not the hat Clifford Roberts would fix. It's the chair.  He would never have allowed the commercialism in place there today.  It loses a little more each year and eventually will be no different.  Berkman Place would have never been allowed.  The BP Ego is the problem.

Incrementalism. 
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2016, 07:05:05 PM »
Quote from: Jerry Kessler on April 10, 2016, 07:02:27 PM
I am more worried about the Bernie or Hillary supporters that post here  :D


Sorry Jerry,

Hat-gate is way way way worse than that.  Now the trump supporters, that may be a different story.   ;)
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Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2016, 07:05:09 PM »
Quote from: Jerry Kessler on April 10, 2016, 07:02:27 PM
I am more worried about the Bernie or Hillary supporters that post here  :D
 

Thou shalt not claim to support Cruz or Trump.

The new 11th Commandment. ;)
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Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

noonan

Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2016, 07:14:52 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on April 10, 2016, 07:05:05 PM
Quote from: Jerry Kessler on April 10, 2016, 07:02:27 PM
I am more worried about the Bernie or Hillary supporters that post here  :D


Sorry Jerry,

Hat-gate is way way way worse than that.  Now the trump supporters, that may be a different story.   ;)


 :o ;D
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2016, 07:16:55 PM »
Add Jordan to the list of degenerate scumbags...he's wearing his hat inside now too..
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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2016, 07:18:48 PM »
Welcome to the 20th century.
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The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2016, 07:42:14 PM »
I'm just so happy to see that Danny Willett believes in bending the bill of his cap. There is some hope for humanity.
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Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2016, 08:11:19 PM »
Sorry, Ran... this is PROFESSIONAL golf, not amateur, and these guys are paid a lot of money to display logos. And, ANGC makes a lot of money off of these guys playing in their invitational tournament.

This ain't your grandpappy's Masters any more.  ;D
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"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

BCowan

Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2016, 08:13:41 PM »
Quote from: Brian Hoover on April 10, 2016, 07:42:14 PM
I'm just so happy to see that Danny Willett believes in bending the bill of his cap. There is some hope for humanity.

Possible post of the year.
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Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2016, 09:19:34 PM »
How long would golf survive if we did away with corporate sponsorship and relied on pay per view?
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2016, 09:24:14 PM »
Quote from: Joe Hancock on April 10, 2016, 09:19:34 PM
How long would golf survive if we did away with corporate sponsorship and relied on pay per view?

Days, I'm sure. Well, maybe hours.
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Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Ryan Hillenbrand

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2016, 09:58:57 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on April 10, 2016, 07:16:55 PM
Add Jordan to the list of degenerate scumbags...he's wearing his hat inside now too..


With that receding hair line, good luck getting Jordan to take that hat off anywhere. "We" keep our hats on at all times.
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mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #37 on: April 10, 2016, 10:11:54 PM »
Not a blank hat for the amateur, it has an SMU Mustang. I cringe when I see hats on inside. Jordan does not wear a hat in the clubhouse at home. Now for the good stuff, Tom Watson played the soccer ball.
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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #38 on: April 10, 2016, 10:47:41 PM »
I side with Ran.  They don't allow the turf equipment companies to show the brand of mower cutting the fairway and tape over them.  they tape over the coke dispensers so that no one can see them so they could easily say no advertising inside the cabin or during the ceremony.  It's changed.
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Carl Johnson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2016, 11:02:56 PM »
Of course it's about the money . . . and don't tell me that Augusta National Golf Club isn't about money.
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Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2016, 11:24:26 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on April 10, 2016, 10:47:41 PM
I side with Ran.  They don't allow the turf equipment companies to show the brand of mower cutting the fairway and tape over them.  they tape over the coke dispensers so that no one can see them so they could easily say no advertising inside the cabin or during the ceremony.  It's changed.

OK, Mike, let me ask you... does Toro (or whoever) supply ANGC with equipment and pay the club to exclusively use their equipment or does ANGC buy the equipment they want like any other club?

If ANGC buys their own equipment then they have a right to cover over the logos so the manufacturers won't be able to use those images in advertising.

If the manufacturers pay ANGC to use their brand of equipment, then they are bad negotiators if they can't get their logoed equipment shown in action.

I've got a feeling it is the former scenario.
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"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2016, 01:09:11 AM »
Saturday Langer took his visor off for the interview (but the sponsor name was on the side), looked great.
A few years ago Watson was without a sponsor and kept his hat on for his interview. It did not look great.
Slowly the masters looses the distinctions that makes it different.
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2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2016, 08:11:55 AM »
Quote from: Tony_Muldoon on April 11, 2016, 01:09:11 AM
Saturday Langer took his visor off for the interview (but the sponsor name was on the side), looked great.
A few years ago Watson was without a sponsor and kept his hat on for his interview. It did not look great.
Slowly the masters looses the distinctions that makes it different.


It's very noticeable, especially when you struggle to see their face.
Seems very odd at Augusta, but Augusta has gone quite corporate with their own brand as well.
Still the best event in sports I've attended-just glad I had the chance to experience the old Masters to provide contrast.


And in the hypocritical category ;D One thing which I really enjoy at The Open is the BIG nature of everything-including the Giant screen TV in the tented village which allows fans to follow the action on the course.But I don't think i'd like to see them at ANGC.
The Open's my second favorite major-but it's getting closer.

Old fashioned Leaderboards at Augusta are a fascinating way to keep up as well-always enjoy being near one and watching the manual changes and reactions
« Last Edit: April 11, 2016, 08:14:37 AM by jeffwarne »
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2016, 09:25:00 AM »

All were hatless during the Butler Cabin jacket ceremony on CBS. I have no doubt that Willett and Spieth, at least, would have kept their hats on during that segment had the ANGC officials not insisted that they be removed.


So the ghost of Clifford Roberts still lingers...
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2016, 09:36:32 AM »
Quote from: David Schmidt on April 10, 2016, 10:32:05 PM
Quote from: Michael Whitaker on April 10, 2016, 08:11:19 PM
Sorry, Ran... this is PROFESSIONAL golf, not amateur, and these guys are paid a lot of money to display logos. And, ANGC makes a lot of money off of these guys playing in their invitational tournament.

This ain't your grandpappy's Masters any more.  ;D

I agree with Michael. This is not a normal club situation where one takes his hat off to be considerate and polite to others. 

This is a commercial STAGE. 

Performers wear costumes.  Tour pros are in costume.  That's the difference. 

Nobody tells a professional actor to take his hat off on stage just because the scene he is in happens to be indoors.

So as long as ANGC is televising this to a world-wide audience for giant ratings for giant money and it is a professional entertainment enterprise, the notion that hats should be taken off indoors and that a hundred million advertising eyeballs should be lost is simply inapplicable.  Take this tournament off TV, and yes, hats off. But as long as ANGC is in the television performance business, the costumes stay ON until the directors yells "Cut!  That's a wrap."

Shivas making sense.
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Mr Hurricane

Mike Davidson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2016, 12:34:57 PM »
At one of the press conferences this week, Jordan was wearing his hat and when one of the reporters began to take his turn, Jordan said something to the effect of "hey you have your hat on" which the reporter bluntly replied "yeah and so do you."  Jordan mouthed/whispered "wow" then took/answered the question.  Seems that at some level the players understand it as a rule and perhaps they have some flexibility in the press tent?  I will try to find the clip tonight.
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Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2016, 12:58:57 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on April 10, 2016, 01:22:20 PM
P.S.  For those complaining about players covered heard to toe logos.  Are you claiming you'd turn down the massive, essentially free $$$ to put them on your gear?
This is a strange conception of freedom.
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Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2016, 01:23:39 PM »
Quote from: Michael Moore on April 11, 2016, 12:58:57 PM
Quote from: Kalen Braley on April 10, 2016, 01:22:20 PM
P.S.  For those complaining about players covered heard to toe logos.  Are you claiming you'd turn down the massive, essentially free $$$ to put them on your gear?
This is a strange conception of freedom.

In addition to the strange concept of actual reality...  ;)
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2016, 10:32:06 PM »
I played a club recently and noticed the men's grill room was full of members with their hats still on, throwing back a few drinks.


I could not bring myself to take the "When in Rome....." position and left mine off. Just doesn't feel right.

 
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: OT Where is Clifford Roberts when you need him?
« Reply #49 on: April 12, 2016, 09:34:49 AM »
Get corporate logo tattooed on your forehead, then remove your hat indoors.  Problem solved... 8)
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak
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