Pace of Play for scholastic golfers

[A.G._Crockett]

AG,


I have been a member at Yale for 20+ years. It is basically a European style "membership" despite the name of the fancy university attached to it. Here are the very public rules:


http://thecourseatyale.org/course-rules/


Golf Course Etiquette

• Be ready to play at your assigned time.
• Keep the pace with the proceeding group.
• Groups are required to finish play in 4.5 hours.
• Players are expected to replace divots, fix ball marks, use the soil boxes on the par 3's and rake bunkers.
• Marshals will monitor play and instruct slow groups to keep pace.
• Coolers are prohibited. Soda and beer may be purchased in Widdy's or at the ninth tee.
• The use of communication devices on the golf course is prohibited except for medical emergencies.

Now Yale is one of the hardest golf courses in the USA. Blind shots on probably 6 holes, crazy greens and bunkers the size of moonscapes. I can't say that every round finishes in 4.5 hours, but they TRY.

I am sorry but I have seen great educators and I have seen "intellectually lazy" educators. I have two sons that are on opposite ends of the education system, one who is Autistic and one who is at the United States Naval Academy.

Lazy is lazy.

Mike,
Thanks again for the "lazy" tag.  Always nice to get a label.

You have given me the pace of play guidelines for Yale, with 4.5 hours as the number.  That's great, and I hope that all rounds at Yale meet that standard.  I'm also a member at a university course (UNC) and we have the exact same pace of play standard.  I don't think we disagree in the least about the desire to play quickly; my group has the first two tee times EVERY Saturday and Sunday, year-round, because the staff knows to a certainty that we will be off the course in under 4 hours, even playing a four ball. 

But understand; we are NOT playing under the Rules in several very important and time-saving ways.  We are picking up at double bogey.  Putts in the leather are given, not marked.  We are NOT going back to the tee in the case of an unexpected lost ball due to leaves or heavy rough, or whatever.  We very much play "ready golf", and so on.  That has little in common with a team event, be it the Yale or UNC varsities in a tournament, or a high school team in a 9 hole match.

So I'll ask my question yet again:  In the club championships of which YOU have been a part over the years, when playing a four ball completely under the Rules, what has been the average length of a round?  Do you find that those rounds are being played at under 4.5, or over?

[corey miller]

I am sorry but a private club opens up it's facility for play gratis they are able to make the rules.  I have not even said what the rule should be but only mildly offered a suggestion as to what I thought may be appropriate.  Again, hopefully, many of the players are the members of the future and would learn the game the right way.   


I fail to see the correlation between the time it takes  a member to play a competitive round and how long it takes a guest group to play a competitive round.  Since there does not seem to be a time limit (which would be good for the game based on what Mike S. presents), I would presume it is play to dark. 


As for A.G, you are "insulted" by what has been offered? Well I am insulted by the statement that I or the others "target" women in our spare time.  You don't know me nor have I made any statement the least bit malicious.  It seems you are the one that has preconceived notions about the folks at many of these clubs.  Perhaps as an educator, and one with such feelings about others, you should consider not bringing your students to such a hostile place with such backward thinking.  That would be a good teaching lesson, do you really want to play at a place that may have members that would vote for Trump? 

[A.G._Crockett]

I am sorry but a private club opens up it's facility for play gratis they are able to make the rules.  I have not even said what the rule should be but only mildly offered a suggestion as to what I thought may be appropriate.  Again, hopefully, many of the players are the members of the future and would learn the game the right way.   


I fail to see the correlation between the time it takes to play a member to play a competitive round and how long it takes a guest group to play a competitive round.  Since there does not seem to be a time limit (which would be good for the game based on what Mike S. presents), I would presume it is play to dark. 


As for A.G, you are "insulted" by what has been offered? Well I am insulted by the statement that I or the others "target" women in our spare time.  You don't know me nor have I made any statement the least bit malicious.  It seems you are the one that has preconceived notions about the folks at many of these clubs.  Perhaps as an educator, and one with such feelings about others, you should consider not bringing your students to such a hostile place with such backward thinking.  That would be a good teaching lesson, do you really want to play at a place that may have members that would vote for Trump? 

Corey,
If I lumped you into a category to which you do not belong, I was mistaken.  You would know that better than I.  I have found that the people that bitch about kids typically also bitch about other groups as well; their biases and prejudices don't turn off and on like light switches; they are constants.  If that is not the case with you, you are to be applauded.

And I will give you full credit for this: At least you concede that YOU expect HS golfers to play more quickly in a team stroke play competition than the membership does.  I'm not sure HOW you expect that to happen without throwing out at least some of the Rules, but at least you are honest about what must be happening at other times in competitive rounds.  And the correlation that you speak of between the competitive rounds of members and those of guests is exactly that; they are competitive stroke play rounds.

We can all lament that in the US we've gone to stroke play instead of match play.  We can lament the pace of play of the pros, and lots of other things.  But the simple fact is that IF there is a competition that is played completely under the Rules, and that competition is a four ball stroke play event, it is NOT going to meet the pace of play that more "casual" rounds enjoy.  It just isn't possible, and when Mike and Dave call me names for saying that, it doesn't change a thing. 

It takes time to go back to the tee; heck, it takes time to hit a provisional and then search for the first ball.  It takes time to mark an 18" putt because you would be standing in someone else's line if you putt it out.  It takes time NOT to pick up after double bogey.  It takes time to wait for the green to clear on a reachable par 5 or a driveable par 4 because you are LONG (which LOTS of HS golfers are).  Lots and lots of things take time in a four ball stroke play competition that have almost nothing to do with regular play at your club or my club or any other club, and there isn't much way around it. 

BTW, when I was a HS golf coach, we were never spoken to or warned about pace of play by the staff of the private club where we played, ever.  They knew full well that I was on my kids constantly about pace of play, and that we were playing as fast or faster than the membership did in the same format.  And they knew that the guys who were coming in and complaining about the kids had come out on a weekday expecting to get around in 2.5 hours as a single or a twosome; there was no way to let them through, play was acceptably paced anyway, and they were the same guys who complained about pretty much everything year-round.  I have no way of knowing if that applies to individuals posting on this thread or not.

[Niall C]

And they knew that the guys who were coming in and complaining about the kids had come out on a weekday expecting to get around in 2.5 hours as a single or a twosome; there was no way to let them through, play was acceptably paced anyway, and they were the same guys who complained about pretty much everything year-round.  I have no way of knowing if that applies to individuals posting on this thread or not.

aaarrghHH !!!!


Players behind playing faster, just let them through. I mean, how difficult is that ?! Doesn't matter if their second name is Trump or whatever, or that they are the most objectionable golfers imagineable, that is no reason not to let them through. Just stand aside. Yes, a single might not have any standing but that is NOT a reason why you can't stand aside.


Niall

[Jason Thurman]

And they knew that the guys who were coming in and complaining about the kids had come out on a weekday expecting to get around in 2.5 hours as a single or a twosome; there was no way to let them through, play was acceptably paced anyway, and they were the same guys who complained about pretty much everything year-round.  I have no way of knowing if that applies to individuals posting on this thread or not.

aaarrghHH !!!!


Players behind playing faster, just let them through. I mean, how difficult is that ?! Doesn't matter if their second name is Trump or whatever, or that they are the most objectionable golfers imagineable, that is no reason not to let them through. Just stand aside. Yes, a single might not have any standing but that is NOT a reason why you can't stand aside.


Niall

First I thought this was insane. But then I thought it would be a great way to make tournaments more exciting. Why should casual play be the only time we have to deal with guys who can't find a friend expecting to have free run of the course? It's a fundamental enough part of golf that tournament players should have to deal with it too.


Let's send random singles out in between groups of tournament competitors and see who can play the best while having their 2.5 hour 9 stretched to 4 hours as they stand aside every couple shots so that another mouth-breather can chop his way past. Ties could be broken by having the tournament players guess which of the singles will illegally post their solo round to the handicap system.

[JMEvensky]

Years ago,my place was holding the State Am. During a starter's time,2 members of a certain age saw the 1st tee open and off they went. The Head Pro caught them on 1 green and politely explained why they needed to wait a couple of hours before playing.

[A.G._Crockett]

And they knew that the guys who were coming in and complaining about the kids had come out on a weekday expecting to get around in 2.5 hours as a single or a twosome; there was no way to let them through, play was acceptably paced anyway, and they were the same guys who complained about pretty much everything year-round.  I have no way of knowing if that applies to individuals posting on this thread or not.

aaarrghHH !!!!


Players behind playing faster, just let them through. I mean, how difficult is that ?! Doesn't matter if their second name is Trump or whatever, or that they are the most objectionable golfers imagineable, that is no reason not to let them through. Just stand aside. Yes, a single might not have any standing but that is NOT a reason why you can't stand aside.


Niall

Niall,
Singles DO have standing; that has been changed.  However, a typical HS match will either have three four balls or six three balls; there simply is nowhere for the single to go.

In my experience, at most clubs the pro shop takes care of all of this; they either put out a calendar with the HS dates blocked off after 4 pm, or whatever, and/or they warn members that there is a match and that they will not simply be able to go as normal on a weekday late afternoon.

One other thought for those who have suggested that the teams be banished to the local muni if the members aren't happy with the pace of play.  At many, if not most, high schools that have access to a private club, the kids on the team are members of that very club.  Their parents are often quite involved in the club as well, and may be attending the matches and expressing both support for the team AND their gratitude for the relationship between the club and expecting it to continue.  The idea that the club will kick the team to the curb because a few people who came out after work expecting to fly around the front nine in 90 minutes is far less accurate than many of you might imagine, especially if the kids are playing at the expected pace of play for a four ball anyway.  Which they usually are...

[John Connolly]

And they knew that the guys who were coming in and complaining about the kids had come out on a weekday expecting to get around in 2.5 hours as a single or a twosome; there was no way to let them through, play was acceptably paced anyway, and they were the same guys who complained about pretty much everything year-round.  I have no way of knowing if that applies to individuals posting on this thread or not.

aaarrghHH !!!!


Players behind playing faster, just let them through. I mean, how difficult is that ?! Doesn't matter if their second name is Trump or whatever, or that they are the most objectionable golfers imagineable, that is no reason not to let them through. Just stand aside. Yes, a single might not have any standing but that is NOT a reason why you can't stand aside.


Niall

First I thought this was insane. But then I thought it would be a great way to make tournaments more exciting. Why should casual play be the only time we have to deal with guys who can't find a friend expecting to have free run of the course? It's a fundamental enough part of golf that tournament players should have to deal with it too.


Let's send random singles out in between groups of tournament competitors and see who can play the best while having their 2.5 hour 9 stretched to 4 hours as they stand aside every couple shots so that another mouth-breather can chop his way past. Ties could be broken by having the tournament players guess which of the singles will illegally post their solo round to the handicap system.

Jason,

Are you critical of singles that move through groups as he/she moves through a round?

[Sean_A]

AG


Quoting times of club matches which are slow to justify slow play for others is like saying well the guy next to me ran the red light, I thought it would be okay of I did.  Slow play is slow play.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  I think all people are saying is kids learn early what is an acceptable pace of play.  For some reason, the accepted pace has gone from shy of 4 hours, to 4 hours, now to 4.5 hours.  At some point, someone has to buck the trend and draw a line in the sand.  You don't seem to believe it, but my HS coach did that by setting high expectations, not accepting excuses and being willing to punish kids for breaking the time limit...which ultimately means winning was second to life lessons.  I hear you saying that coaches today are not willing to go to such lengths to ensure the pace of play is reasonable. Its a shame...but one reason why I am not a big believer in "growing the game" if it means the game becomes less fun to play because of slow play....and to be clear...4.5 hours is slow play and imo is indictative of slipping standards.


Ciao

[Mike Sweeney]

  I think all people are saying is kids learn early what is an acceptable pace of play.  For some reason, the accepted pace has gone from shy of 4 hours, to 4 hours, now to 4.5 hours.  At some point, someone has to buck the trend and draw a line in the sand.  You don't seem to believe it, but my HS coach did that by setting high expectations, not accepting excuses and being willing to punish kids for breaking the time limit...which ultimately means winning was second to life lessons.  I hear you saying that coaches today are not willing to go to such lengths to ensure the pace of play is reasonable. Its a shame...but one reason why I am not a big believer in "growing the game" if it means the game becomes less fun to play because of slow play....and to be clear...4.5 hours is slow play and imo is indictative of slipping standards.

So I had a meeting in New Jersey today and decided to catch 9 holes at "Mucci National" on the way back into NYC. I was on the 8th tee, and saw the group above which was a woman's high school match, a public school on a public course. The Coach was obviously very involved in the match (he was in a cart), and we spoke for a few minutes about women's high school golf:

• The women's matches take 2:30 to 2:45 on average
• The coach is male, and he is allowed to coach the women during their match. No coaching during boys matches.
• The women have to pick up after 10 strokes
• This was his first year of coaching golf, and he loved it.
• The team stroke total IS a problem as every stroke counts so they feel the pressure to perform for their teammates. This was confirmed by my friend with a male high school golfer who stated later "Given the team result is a combined net score, there is a disincentive to fast play.  He said everybody treats every putt like the end of the world.  And the poor kid with the 11, well besides the strokes he had to rake a bunker 4 times.  Imagine that on pace of play!"
• The Coach played high school golf and his team mainly played match play (I never saw this in my era, and he was my era).

Some observations from me:

• This was a public course and a public school but the same issues were obvious. The girls walked very slowly and they were very involved in their teammates game. Lots of talking.
• The 10 shot pickup rule seems like a good start, but why not a "double par" pickup?
• The Coach mentioned the "old boys club" who run the league, and they are not open to suggestions from a first year coach. Sounds familiar....
• The Coach had to deal with cultural issues. This was strictly my observation and he said nothing about it.
• The Coach was completely open and receptive to a conversation with a stranger on a golf course only identifying himself as a "former high school golfer". Very nice guy who had two boys and he was looking forward to their days together on the golf course.

[Sean_A]

Mike


I can very much appreciate the idea of women (girl's?) HS team which is loaded with what sounds like beginners.  However, as you mention, perhaps like most of us probably played as beginners, the parent/teacher/coach doesn't allow play to bog down.  Rules are set to keep the game moving...because 2.5 hours for 9 holes is ...well...stupid. 


BTW - In HS we too played a team medal game...5 of 6 scores to count.  To me, HS golf has Stableford written all over it.  The sooner card and pencil types move toward Stableford play the better. 


Folks may find this info very interesting...in fact the entire eproject is interesting.
http://simplegolfrules.com/CodeTwo/?showfile=CodeTwoConclusions.html


Ciao 

[Niall C]

Singles DO have standing; that has been changed.  However, a typical HS match will either have three four balls or six three balls; there simply is nowhere for the single to go.

AG - yes there is. They go through the first group then they go through the second group, assuming they are still moving significantly faster than that group, and so on. The "we're keeping up with the group in front" argument doesn't wash and neither does the "no place to go" argument. If it did we would all be condemned to the pace of the first group out irrespective of whether they were taking 5 or 6 hours to play a round. I've genuinely no problem with someone taking 5 or 6 hours a round as long as they stand aside to let quicker players through.

Niall

[Mike Sweeney]

Singles DO have standing; that has been changed.  However, a typical HS match will either have three four balls or six three balls; there simply is nowhere for the single to go.
AG - yes there is. They go through the first group then they go through the second group, assuming they are still moving significantly faster than that group, and so on. The "we're keeping up with the group in front" argument doesn't wash and neither does the "no place to go" argument. If it did we would all be condemned to the pace of the first group out irrespective of whether they were taking 5 or 6 hours to play a round. I've genuinely no problem with someone taking 5 or 6 hours a round as long as they stand aside to let quicker players through.

Niall

I do take the John Kavanaugh position here that, in general, playing through and being played through is annoying and should be avoided. I know the rules allow it, but I try to avoid it. Yesterday I was a single and I waited for a partner. We played behind a foursome all day and he was one of the Founding Members of Links at Union Vale and we gabbed like old Irish guys behind the foursome.


http://news.cybergolf.com/golf_news/a_touch_of_the_emerald_isle_in_dutchess_county


Back to high school golf, I got this message last night from a dues paying, tuition paying dad who wants to "change the  golf world" with me. I think an argument can be made that stroke play limits the evolving golfer from trying recovery shots:


"Update on your GCA thread. The kid he (my friend's son) beat with a 42 shot a 47 with the 11 on a par 4.  He's a very good golfer, not a beginner or hack, but because he can't pick up for double looks like a mess to the outsider.  Apparently the 11 happened on 7, with a bogey and 5 pars preceding it.  Stroke play is the wrong format for HS.They were all square before 7.  It was over after that, but if it were match play it would have been a close match."

[archie_struthers]

 




We've been hosting junior golf at our club since the 1990's . It is a great thing to do !


However , the pace of play has gotten glacial . It's probably as much from the parents tutelage, which borders on the fanatical at times. Gotta love  devotion to their kids , but it's often stifling. There isn't the pick up games many of us seniors remember as the defining part of sports activities in our youth . It's personal trainers, coaches and all kinds of people getting the youngsters ear at an early age . Too much , too soon.


Just let them participate , and inform one would be happy to see pace of play be far more important .  When we were kids , we played as fast as humanly possible to get in a many holes as possible after caddying. It's a lost art .

[A.G._Crockett]

AG


Quoting times of club matches which are slow to justify slow play for others is like saying well the guy next to me ran the red light, I thought it would be okay of I did.  Slow play is slow play.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  I think all people are saying is kids learn early what is an acceptable pace of play.  For some reason, the accepted pace has gone from shy of 4 hours, to 4 hours, now to 4.5 hours.  At some point, someone has to buck the trend and draw a line in the sand.  You don't seem to believe it, but my HS coach did that by setting high expectations, not accepting excuses and being willing to punish kids for breaking the time limit...which ultimately means winning was second to life lessons.  I hear you saying that coaches today are not willing to go to such lengths to ensure the pace of play is reasonable. Its a shame...but one reason why I am not a big believer in "growing the game" if it means the game becomes less fun to play because of slow play....and to be clear...4.5 hours is slow play and imo is indictative of slipping standards.


Ciao

Sean,
You do NOT hear me saying that high school golf coaches are "not willing" when it comes to pace of play.  EVERY HS coach I ever knew was tremendously aware of pace of play, simply because they knew that their team were guests, even if many or most of the individual players were members of that very club.

You have decided that a 4.5 pace of play is slow, and that's great; I like to play faster, and I wish you luck at stemming the tide and reversing the trend.  But IF that is the pace of play standard for casual play at a club and there is a stroke play competition at that club that meets the standard, then BY DEFINITION that is NOT slow play at that course.

The essence of this thread the idea that HS golfers are somehow slower and therefore a problem.  My contention, based on my experience, is that four ball stroke play under the Rules is the slowest way possible to play golf, and that the pace of play in club championships ALWAYS reflects this.  I don't think anybody has even disputed that, have they?

When members come out on a late spring afternoon expecting to zip around 9 holes as a single or a twosome in 90 minutes or so, only to encounter a high school match, they get pissed.  It doesn't really have much to do with the actual pace of play of the HS kids anyway; they could be playing at a sub 4 hour pace, and they'd still be in the way.  Unfortunately, instead of being an anonymous group that can let somebody play thru, they have on team shirts and are carrying team bags and there are 3 to 6 groups and nowhere to go.  They're identifiable, they're easy targets, and they're in the way.

[Niall C]

Mike


As often happens when playing through you rush and end up making a hash of the hole. IMO that is a small price to pay for not having to spend the next 3 or 4 hours hanging around waiting to play every shot with your blood pressure going through the roof. The fact that you were able to spend that time gabbing with your pal and you were quite happy waiting is good for you but I hope you had the decency to look over your shoulder occasionally and make sure that no one was waiting on you !


Archie


Couldn't agree more. I recall playing in an open comp at Cruden Bay a few years ago and getting paired with a young guy who was on a golf scholarship in the US. He told me the regime these guys have to go through which made it sound more like the Marines, and it was evident that these guys had to do what they were told.


I was reminded of this a couple of weeks ago when I had the great good fortune to be at a well known high end club in the US, watching the guys and girls from the local university/college team (the same one Elderick went to or so I believe) go through their paces on the practice range/putting green. It was evident they had been taught a very deliberate routine which they went through every time. Given they are being taught to be slow, and a lot of these guys end up on tour, and the general golfing public mimics what they see on television is it any wonder golf has become so slow ?


Niall

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike

The fact that you were able to spend that time gabbing with your pal and you were quite happy waiting is good for you but I hope you had the decency to look over your shoulder occasionally and make sure that no one was waiting on you !

Mucci National is a 9 hole course 15 miles from the George Washington Bridge, which is in the middle of 12 million people in a 100 mile radius. The parking lot was packed when I pulled up on a beautiful Spring afternoon. Somehow I got there at a moment of lull on the first tee. The course was packed and there was no going anywhere for anyone. Spring has really sprung in NYC and everyone was enjoying the day on a very inexpensive, very nicely kept 9 hole course.


Golf, like life, is often driven by situational events. I think we were situationally appropriate as my partner was a 70 year old Irishman who is recovering from a bad back. He carried his 6 club bag, because buggies were actually harder for his back. When we walked out, four twenty something year old guys were going out in TWO CARTS on a 3100 yard 9 hole course!!


That is a whole different kettle of fish, which could easily include my 20 year old son!

[John Kavanaugh]

Mike


As often happens when playing through you rush and end up making a hash of the hole. IMO that is a small price to pay for not having to spend the next 3 or 4 hours hanging around waiting to play every shot with your blood pressure going through the roof.

And there is the problem. Why are you so angry at having to wait? If you can eliminate this anger you eliminate the problem.


You know it's not just golf, it's driving, waiting at the sandwich shop for someone who doesn't know what they want, waiting at the convenience store for the guy in front to move aside, waiting for the preacher to make his f-ing point, waiting, waiting, waiting. Last weekend I was in my car 20 hours practicing courteous followship, it's some hard stuff but does build the discipline it takes to enjoy the small things in life. You'll never get past the waiting in life so sit back and learn not to let it ruin your day. Hell, you may even make the day of the people you are waiting on more pleasant.

[Jason Thurman]

Jason,

Are you critical of singles that move through groups as he/she moves through a round?

Yes. #BuddyUp!!!

[BHoover]

Jason,

Are you critical of singles that move through groups as he/she moves through a round?

Yes. #BuddyUp!!!

The Buddy Up! 2016 season has officially begun!!!!!!

[Jason Thurman]

Brian, as you know from Twitter, I Buddied Up! yesterday with a friend and fellow GCA member for an after work round. We went out behind a fivesome at his home club, and could have played through them at numerous times during the round if we'd wanted to - they invited us to simply shout if we wanted to go ahead. But then again, they were playing at a healthy 3.5 hour pace on a beautiful day on a fairly busy course, so we instead adjusted our own pace to match theirs, which in turn matched the pace of the rest of the groups on the course. We only really waited on one shot, and that was only because it was blind and they forgot to ring the "all clear" bell. Shortly after we teed off on the blind hole, a single came up behind us. We invited him to play through, and he instead suggested that we #BuddyUp!!! and even skipped hitting his drive, simply throwing one down 40 yards behind mine (which made me like him even more). We gained a friend and finished as sunset approached on the nicest day of the year so far, even if I failed to make the birdie that would have secured an even-par back nine.


The only thing that would have made the round better would have been a drink afterwards (well, that and that birdie on 18), but unfortunately my time for idle leisure had ended for the week. I got in my car and rushed home to run an errand that involved a 90 minute drive, broken up only by a rushed stop at a Noodles & Co to grab a bowl of some khaki and jaundice colored garbage that I'd microwave an hour later before consuming as part of a meal that set the course of human dignity backwards a solid 7 years. While waiting for the food, I moved as fast as I could to connect to the N&Co Guest wi-fi so I could download my third-favorite podcast without using any of my 4G data plan, and watched frantically hoping that the download would complete at exactly the same time as the food so that no moment would be wasted. Everything after the round was a mad rush - I even had to hurry up and fall asleep so that I could get up early and make the same 90 minute drive back to where I'd come from the night before.


My conclusion: life is much better when working harmoniously with our fellow man at a pace that matches his than it is when rushing to beat him in a race he doesn't know he's a part of. Sometimes our fellow man is too slow and leaves us no other choice (like when he's playing at a five hour deathmarch pace), but all things being equal, I'd prefer to just not be the asshole who makes everybody's day a little worse because I didn't manage the rest of my calendar well enough to afford a 3:30 round instead of a 3:10. Not that any of this has much to do with 2 1/2 hour high school matches, but when guys are seriously suggesting that singles should be allowed to play through groups competing in a tournament, I have a tendency to ramble.

[BHoover]

Another example of how the Buddy Up! movement is changing our world for the better! It's a Buddy Up! world and we're living in it!

Jason, why do you get anything other than Mac & Cheese at Noodles? That sounds damn tempting for lunch today.

[MCirba]

Perhaps we should let the very efficient, no-nonsense Donald Ross have a say...

[Kalen Braley]

I have to admit, I'm a bit surprised HS golf isn't structured a bit like HS Tennis with a hybrid of Cross Country for results.

The format would be:
1)  Match play for everyone.
2)  Have an odd number of matches, preferably 5, (with a chipoff at 9 if dormie for a winner) to ensure a "team winner".
3)  Matches would be best player for Team A, plays best player for Team B in match 1....next best 2 in Match 2, and so forth.
4)  If you have extra kids on one team or both, they can still play friendly matches even if they don't count for team score, just like Cross Country.

It would seem this would go much quicker for the "big" number holes, as they just pick up.

Thoughts??

[Dan_Callahan]

I coach a high school team in Mass.


Everything is match play. If it's a tri match, the three#1s go out together, three #2s go together, etc.


If it's a dual match, #1s and #2s go out in foursomes, followed by #3s and #4s, etc. In the dual matches, the eighth match doesn't count, which gives less experienced kids a chance to see what a match is like without the stress of possibly costing the team a win.


When I coached in Conn, it was all stroke play. Match play is significantly faster. However, our league championship tourney is stroke play, and that abrupt transition can be problematic to some.