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BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
ANGC and "growing the game"
« on: April 05, 2016, 12:31:51 PM »
I don't mean this thread to be taken sarcastically. I actually do present this as an honest question--what does ANGC do to "grow the game"?

I just saw Ron Sirak on Twitter mention that the club does much to grow the game. Is that true? If so, what specifically does ANGC do to grow the game?

To be certain, the club has done a great job of growing the prestige of the Masters tournament. But that is more growing the brand than the game of golf. I know that the DC&P event is intended, at least on some level, to grow the game by encouraging kids to participate in the game of golf (we can debate, as we have been, whether the stated goal is being met).

But what specifically has ANGC done to grow the game? I'm not saying that ANGC is bad for golf. But I also don't see how it has been "great" for golf other than by drumming up interest in watching the tournament and then possibly getting people interested in playing golf.

What am I missing? Please tell me.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2016, 12:36:58 PM »
ANGC does admit kids to the Masters for free if accompanied by an adult with a badge.


So there's that, but that's not much.


Bob

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2016, 12:40:15 PM »
Also, I have zero issue with ANGC doing what it can to grow and promote its brand. The Masters is their tournament, so more power to them.

But I just don't see (or perhaps know) what the club does to actually grow the game, despite what I hear the golf media tell us each year during Masters week.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2016, 12:53:33 PM »
Brian,


If questioning what Augusta has done to grow the game is fair, I would also ask the same about the PGA Tour as a whole.
Tim Weiman

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2016, 12:57:10 PM »
Brian,

If questioning what Augusta has done to grow the game is fair, I would also ask the same about the PGA Tour as a whole.

That's fair, and I would add the USGA, R&A, PGA, etc. But it's Masters week...

Tim Gallant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2016, 01:09:13 PM »
Brian,


I would say the work they do at the amateur level is huge. By giving invitations to the Pacific Am and Latin Am, I think it does two things: 1. Gives importance and weight to regional tourneys. I followed the Latin Am this year. Would I have done this if the Masters invite wasn't there? Maybe, but I don't think it would get the same press coverage if a Masters invite wasn't on the line. 2. By having amateurs from around the world participate in the Masters, there is more press coverage in their respective regions, and more reason for traditional non-golfing countries to watch, which might in turn inspire other kids to pick up the game.


An example of this is Paul Chaplet from Costa Rica. Do you think there will be more coverage of the Masters and golf in general in the local papers because of his participation?


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2016, 01:17:35 PM »
An argument could be made they are bad for the game.

By setting an unrealistic example that other places try to copycat...leading to bloated budgets, and higher green fees that just frustrates both customers and people employed in the industry...

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2016, 01:45:42 PM »
They could do ZERO outside of opening the gates for 4 days every April and they'd still be doing more to "grow" the game than nearly any other single entity in golf.  They get the most coverage, current and new golfers, out of anything in golf. That in itself is growing the game.

The fact that they use their status in the golf world to do things like the DCP and amateur invites (instead of washed-up pros on sponsor exemptions) instead of solely raking in the massive profits should be commended.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2016, 02:03:56 PM »
They could do ZERO outside of opening the gates for 4 days every April and they'd still be doing more to "grow" the game than nearly any other single entity in golf.  They get the most coverage, current and new golfers, out of anything in golf. That in itself is growing the game.

The fact that they use their status in the golf world to do things like the DCP and amateur invites (instead of washed-up pros on sponsor exemptions) instead of solely raking in the massive profits should be commended.

I see most of this as growing the ANGC brand, rather than the game of golf in general. But you may be right.

If the golfing public sees ANGC as the gold standard for a golf course, is that a good thing? I can see it being good and bad.

As for the tournament field, allowing former champions to keep playing makes this the weekest field of the four majors. But that's not the topic at hand.

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2016, 02:22:18 PM »
If you look at it that way.  Can you separate anything from growing a "brand" and growing "the game" anymore? 

As far as being the gold standard...that in itself is clearly a bad thing.  However, aspiring to play a course "like" Augusta or wanting to practice more to make it to the actual Augusta.  That can be good for the game.

I personally hate the "growing the game" phrase and movement.  Just let the game be.  It will figure it out.  In that aspect I think Augusta does it right.  They do things to promote their "brand" as you say, which in turn help promote the game. 

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2016, 02:26:17 PM »
I hate the phrase too. But I saw Ron Sirak on Twitter this morning, and the rest of the golf media, talk about how much ANGC does to grow the game, without actually providing any examples. Hence this thread.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2016, 02:27:24 PM »
It's appearances on TV and in magazines etc has been said to have inspired quite a few to take up the game. Without such wonder if they would/wouldn't have done so?
Atb

Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2016, 02:45:11 PM »
In addition to the DPC and amateur events already mentioned, they have a Foundation that does quite a bit to support non-profit organizations both in and out of the game. 


Bob Harig from ESPN wrote this article about it last year that provides some details:


http://espn.go.com/golf/masters15/story/_/id/12619674/the-moves-motives-augusta-national-chairman-billy-payne


I suspect that they quietly do much more than we realize, and I suspect that they like it that way.


What I am finding as I navigate through the process of getting the new Canal Shores funded and built is simply this:  Whether it's the USGA or ANGC or the PGA, if you strip away all of the media hype and branding and bureaucracy, there are actually some really generous folks trying to make a contribution to the game the best they can.  It's hard to get to that through the noise sometimes, but they are there, and at least in my experience, their efforts make a difference.


Criticisms that get lobbed toward them are sometimes valid, but from my perspective, cynicism is intellectually lazy and misses the opportunity to give credit where it is due.
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2016, 02:49:10 PM »
They're great at growing the envy. The game?  Not so much.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2016, 02:50:29 PM »
Augusta National is great for the game. The club puts on the best tournament of the year for viewers both onsite and at home by maximizing airtime and dollar value for the fan instead of maximizing profits for the club and the tournament. It's the one event of the year where the course itself is the true star, and it's played at a course worthy of such a lofty place in the game and the scrutiny that comes with it. The Masters marks the official beginning of spring for most of us, and the American public's interest in golf peaks for the year this weekend. The club's commitment to the etiquette and traditions of the game reflects not only golf at its best, but society at its best. There is no course that plays a greater role in stirring the desire for the game in golfers both old and new.


Augusta National is awful for the game. There is no club that better reflects or more widely influences the excessive growth in maintenance and land-acquisition costs for golf courses. There is no club that more publicly carries the baggage of years of discrimination embedded within the culture of the game, and The Masters is the event that most publicly stirs the general public's discomfort with the stereotype of a game for old, wealthy WASP men. It reflects golf at the peak of its sanctimony, expense, and exclusion.


Augusta National is a tremendous positive influence on the game, and a tremendous negative influence as well. In that way, it's much like 460cc drivers, the ProV1x, the golf cart, metal spikes, Tiger Woods, 10th Tee bars, beer cart girls, Scotty Cameron, Trackman...
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Ian Mackenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2016, 02:51:51 PM »
They're great at growing the envy. The game?  Not so much.


+1

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2016, 02:58:30 PM »
Excellent post, JT. I couldn't have said it better.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2016, 03:08:04 PM »
Terry,

Love your post.

JT, 

Great post in general, but I doubt the club is hurting in the revenue department.  The extra time they forgo commercials for playing time is likely closer to a rounding error at the end of year book closing...

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2016, 03:18:19 PM »
Kalen you're obviously right. But Herb Simon isn't hurting for money either, and yet he's still going to charge me $10 every time my wife wants a beer at the basketball game I'm going to tomorrow. She could drink for an entire day at The Masters for what we'll spend by the end of the first quarter.


It's important to note that my wife is a very successful woman and in no way a drunk. You'd drink too if you had to spend 8 straight hours with me.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2016, 03:23:51 PM »
Kalen you're obviously right. But Herb Simon isn't hurting for money either, and yet he's still going to charge me $10 every time my wife wants a beer at the basketball game I'm going to tomorrow. She could drink for an entire day at The Masters for what we'll spend by the end of the first quarter.


It's important to note that my wife is a very successful woman and in no way a drunk. You'd drink too if you had to spend 8 straight hours with me.

JT,

I get it and that sux no doubt.  I make the choice not to purchase at rip-off prices like that and is probably why I attend very few events at restricted venues like that.

P.S.  You did well though JT, marrying up and all!!  ;D

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2016, 03:35:03 PM »

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2016, 09:56:21 PM »
ANGC does admit kids to the Masters for free if accompanied by an adult with a badge.


So there's that, but that's not much.


Bob

IF the badge is being used by the person on the mailing list.(few and far between)
ie I cant use a borrowed or repurchased ticket to take a child
Nonetheless a great perk but not exactly creating new access.
That said,I love The Masters and think its great.It grows the game by inspiring people to play.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2016, 10:01:49 PM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game"
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2016, 05:22:02 AM »
What exactly would folks like Augusta to do in an effort to grow the game? 


Is growing the game even a goal we should wish? 


How bout if we first worry about sustaining the game?  Concentrate on making what we have a better experience?  Concentrate on working better with nature, using less drink and feed?  You know, the things which would improve the image of golf.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ANGC and "growing the game" New
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2016, 08:02:19 AM »
I have seen a general increase in play at the clubs I have worked at over the years on the week following the Masters. But the weather can be such a big factor in April rounds, so it's hard to make a definite correlation.

Either way, I think we may say that Bobby Jones brought a lot of people to the game and The Masters keeps his persona alive for future generations to be inspired by.

« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 11:11:13 AM by Bradley Anderson »