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John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2015, 12:12:50 PM »
A trip to Pebble has already been done by someone with a slightly worse swing but better fashion sense than me.  I'm jealous.


https://www.gofundme.com/reass

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2015, 04:21:34 AM »
I don't see how eliminating amateur status will help golfers.  What is the problem with having pros and amateurs?  Its poor enforcement of amateur status and a leniency of what it means to be an amateur that is the problem. People are fed up with well funded ams playing golf all the time so they want to eliminate amateur status.  Why not just tighten the rules for amateur status and for allowing pros to become amateurs again? 


As for the fundraising to get in shape for the Masters....what do any of you care?  Its not your life, family, job or invite.  If you don't want to contribute then don't.  Live and let live.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2015, 04:28:30 AM »
I don't see how eliminating amateur status will help golfers.  What is the problem with having pros and amateurs?  Its poor enforcement of amateur status and a leniency of what it means to be an amateur that is the problem. People are fed up with well funded ams playing golf all the time so they want to eliminate amateur status.  Why not just tighten the rules for amateur status and for allowing pros to become amateurs again? 


Sean,

can you really see either the USGA or R&A having the gumption to do anything of any consequence about this. It has all the hall marks of the distance problem. Very detrimental to the game, very easy to solve but nothing being done.

Jon

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2015, 04:57:11 AM »
Jon


In either case, I can't see how "semi-pro" amateurs is detrimental to the game.  It doesn't effect the likes of me in the least...that is to say nearly all golfers.


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2015, 06:41:07 AM »
Sean,

I agree with you but would imagine that the traditional club champion who keeps his game trim by early morning, late evening and weekend practice when he is not working might not be of the same opinion when facing such 'semi pro' players in county events. There is the same distinction amongst the PGA trainees in that those who work their days in the shop have to face others who only play but are attached.

Jon

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2015, 09:02:51 AM »
It's hard to put a value on hope.  When the 45 yr old thinks he might finally make a USGA Championship at 55 he just might play more, spend more and enjoy the game more.  These reinstated money through the back door pros steal that hope.




Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2015, 09:12:26 AM »
It's an invite to play in the Masters.  I don't believe it is legally binding.  I hope they pull it for this embarrassing development.  No different than they pull the invite if you turn pro before the tournament.

+1

So he sets up an account and members of the public put money in it. Apparently that's bad.

Perhaps one of you apologists for this uneven playing field could explain to me how it would be different if his daddy was to pay into the account.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2015, 09:15:04 AM »
Paul,


Because Daddy puts money in your account even if you are a loser, this guy is getting paid for winning.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #33 on: October 22, 2015, 09:16:10 AM »
They should just get rid of amateur and professional categories and merge the governing bodies.

Fully agree.

Absolutely. The current scenario is just a means to prohibit the poor kids from winning a second tier title. Make The Walker Cup an under 18's event and be done with it. If you can play, you can get paid.


Bollocks to the poor kids, what about us poor hackers trying to win the saturday medal and some bloody semi-pro who has been clogging up the course all week walks of with the trophy.


Niall

Good point. The world shouldpprobably stop turning so you can win a worthless club event. Creating an equitable system in elite world golf is trivial when compared to the Shufflebottom Memorial Trophy at Little England Golf Club.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2015, 09:20:26 AM »
Paul,


Because Daddy puts money in your account even if you are a loser, this guy is getting paid for winning.

So if daddy were to say he'd only fund the trip if the kid qualified, that would equally be wrong? Strange reasoning but ok.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2015, 09:27:43 AM »


This episode reminds me of one of the all-time great Harvey Penick anecdotes, "The Dreamer Sees the Real Thing", which concludes -

"Let me tell you about one of out club members," Tinsley said. "Like you, he's forty-three years old, and he's made all the money he'll ever need. He has a handsome wife and family. He practices golf every day, and he plays golf nearly every day. He's getting ready for the Senior Tour in seven more years. At this tough golf course, his handicap is a plus four. He is your competition. He is the player you are going to learn to have to beat if you are going to go on the Senior Tour. I really don't want to spend seven years of my life trying to do that. Not for any price.

"There's the man I'm talking about - he's sitting over by the window, eating a club sandwich."

Tinsley gestured toward Tom Kite.
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2015, 09:40:59 AM »
Michael,


That story is why I said 55, the age of the amateur senior status.  With just an 18 hole qualifier there are some beautiful stories at the US Senior Am.  It would be sweet to have one tournament for those guys who never earned a dime playing the game.  Gambling excluded of course.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2015, 09:51:02 AM »
I'm sure in the old days they'd pass the hat and all the big wigs at the club would be guaranteed rounds with their best clients and the Mid-Am champ. It would all be nice and quiet and Sammy Schmitz would feel beholden to those guys for the rest of his life  ---its called disintermediation. Find something else to be outraged at like tour vans on College Campuses.

http://www.pga.com/news/golf-buzz/sammy-schmitz-raises-25000-in-three-days-fund-trip-masters





Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Peter Pallotta

Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2015, 10:24:27 AM »
Is amateur golf like polo? Yes - except for the horses, and the bunkers.

Are amateur golfers like polo players? No - the latter have no need whatsoever to be supported or even noticed by others.

Am I like like Tom Kite? Yes - I wear glasses, and also have the Hogan Grinds that he used at Pebble.

MClutterbuck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2015, 02:15:06 PM »

P.S.  From what I saw of polo in Argentina, your characterization is slightly off.  There is a whole bunch of money going into polo now; the amateurs are mostly window dressing to support the pros.


As Tom says, there is no possible comparison.


Amateur Polo is a lot more expensive than amateur golf. An amateur playing top level polo these days can expect to spend well over $1 million in fees to the pros playing along side him for maybe a month in one of the top handicap tournaments. This does not even start considering costs of his own horse operation.


I would argue that outside Argentina, top amateur polo is a sport for those that have more than $100 million in the bank. This means top amateur polo is played by 0 or 1 goal players that can pay for pros and their horses, the equivallent of a 25 handicap golfers that can pay for Spieth, Rory et all to play for their team. Amateur golf is a ton more democratic.


Ironically, professional polo is only played alongside amateurs. That is, when pros are paid to play and win. 1 amateur per team (the sponsor or Patron) and 3 pros. 


By contrast, the 3 most important tournaments in the world, are played by the top pros (4 pros per team), but it remains "amateur". No prize money at all and they do not get paid to play. And no amateurs can play in this.

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Buck Wolter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience -- CS Lewis

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #42 on: April 06, 2016, 03:46:20 PM »

[/quote]

Thank you. This GoFundMe thing is out of control, now its anybody who wants something for free. I can think of far more deserving cases then helping a guy travel back and forth to Augusta National b/c he gets unlimited practice rounds.

I once caddied in a U.S. Mid Am and the most common occupations were business owner, financial advisor, teacher and firefighter. Seemed the common currency was free time, and not income, that made for a top mid am.
[/quote]
Aren't many or most of the Top Mid Am's "Re-instated Amateurs" .... which is a whole debate by itself, IMO.  Which to me is not a real Amateur.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Will MacEwen

Re: Is Amateur golf still like Polo?
« Reply #43 on: April 06, 2016, 07:41:45 PM »
Most of the competitive Ams (not mid-ams) are collegiate players and borderline full time golfers. Deschambault has already gone overseas doe a bunch of events, doesn't work or or go to school, and is essentially a full time golfer. After Augusta he will turn pro, and he already has his tour events planned out where he will try to get Tour status.


Essentially he is a full time golfer with a plan to turn pro in days and pursue his livelihood in professional golf. However, he has navigated the hazards and still is technically an amateur. If he plays well next week he will be hailed for his purity, with references to Bobby Jones.


I know that in the twilight days of the amateur code in rugby there were jokes about "shamateurs" - internationals with full time jobs doing nothing but some PR and glad handing. The amateur era had more charm, but the modern era has more honesty.


As for re-instated ams, Tour rules official Dillard Pruitt managed to win the Canadian Am after winning a PGA Tour event years prior. That has to be the absolute extreme case.