[James Brown]

is there a standout public layout in Atlanta?

[A.G._Crockett]

There are some options; Wolf Creek near the airport is one.  North Fulton (Chastain Park) is an interesting old layout with sort of a cool history, but it is always packed. 

But for the most part, the best options for public golf in the ATL are going to be pretty far outside the perimeter in one direction or the other.  Since "Atlanta" is a pretty huge area and subject to mammoth driving times, narrow it down for us by telling us where you are going to be located.  Otherwise, people will give you options that involve drives that simply can't be done in a reasonable time.

[BCrosby]

Mike Young's Wolf Creek is very good and near the airport. I have friends who played it between flights.

Mike's other course is Heritage. Under-rated and a lot of fun.

Chastain (North Fulton) is a Chandler Egan course. Some wonderful holes, but, as noted, it tends to get busy and pace of play is often glacial.

Otherwise there are a large number of decent country club for a day courses that ring Atlanta. None come to mind as places to avoid. The Atlanta metro region is well spread out, so do a Google search and find one convenient to where you will be. As is true for many places today, they will be eager to have your business.

Bob


   

[Bill_McBride]

Heritage is one of the three courses at this September's Dixie Cup, along with Rivermont and the Standard Club.  Plenty of openings left at this early date. 

[James Brown]

Interesting.  Surprises me that Atlanta doesn't have a great standout  public course when you think about it.  But then again, until Bobby Jones, there wasn't an iconic sports hero for the south in golf. 

[Mike_Young]

Interesting.  Surprises me that Atlanta doesn't have a great standout  public course when you think about it.  But then again, until Bobby Jones, there wasn't an iconic sports hero for the south in golf.

WHAT?   "until Bobby Jones, there wasn't an iconic sports hero for the south in golf.[/size] "    How does that relate to standout public golf in ATL?

[James Brown]

Interesting.  Surprises me that Atlanta doesn't have a great standout  public course when you think about it.  But then again, until Bobby Jones, there wasn't an iconic sports hero for the south in golf.

WHAT?   "until Bobby Jones, there wasn't an iconic sports hero for the south in golf. "    How does that relate to standout public golf in ATL?





Which part?.

[James Brown]

Interesting.  Surprises me that Atlanta doesn't have a great standout  public course when you think about it.  But then again, until Bobby Jones, there wasn't an iconic sports hero for the south in golf.

WHAT?   "until Bobby Jones, there wasn't an iconic sports hero for the south in golf. "    How does that relate to standout public golf in ATL?





Which part?.

Which part?

[Mike_Young]

What does one have to do with the other?

[James Brown]

What does one have to do with the other?

Before Jones, golf interest amongst the general public in the south had not really taken off.  Jones was a catalyst, or at least so I have read.  So the development of public golf in the Georgia was late compare to the Northeast, Midwest, and the West and suffered from losing some time to the Great Depression.  As a result, there are not many historically great public courses in the area. 


Not knowing Atlanta very well, I was kind of surprised there is no at least one standout historical public layout in the area.  From what I can tell (your) Wolf Creek course might be the best public course in the area and it's very modern. 

[jim_lewis]

For the past 40+ years Atlanta has suffered under political leadership who has had little interest in maintaining, improving or building public golf courses. I suppose the same can be said for all of Fulton County. If you are interested in golf course history and want to play public, make the effort to play North Fulton. I have fond memories on many rounds there back in the 70's. Made my first hole in one there. I haven't seen it lately, but I always thought it could be very good if the city would spend some money on it. But then, they would probably price it our of reach for some and it would lose some of its character.

[BCrosby]

Crusty -


Efforts are afoot to improve the Atlanta muni courses. If nothing else, the city finally understands the jewel it has in North Fulton. They also understand that a city as big as Atlanta should have better public golf. At present there are a number of neighborhoods and other groups trying to sort things out with the council and mayor.   


Bob

[Ben Hollerbach]

North Fulton is by far my favorite public option in town. A course with a great history and architectural bones that would benefit greatly from an influx of money and an architects touch. If you are one of the first few groups off in the morning your pace should be just fine. Beyond that Atlanta is severely lacking in good public options.


Wolf Creek is a good course, but I'd rather play North Fulton. Even with all of its "issues". The north suburbs present you much better play options, but they are quite a ways out of town. It seems when someone shows interest in improving the in town munis courses the surrounding neighborhoods have quite an influence. Candler Park could be a really neat 9 holer, but the neighborhood wants it to be an open use park. The work around Bobby Jones seems to have gone stagnant as the neighbors are split for and against the work.


Bob,


What progress is going on with North Fulton? I'd love to hear more on what is trying to be done at that course.

[BCrosby]

Ben -


A couple of groups are trying to do things. The management contracts for the golf courses is where things will start.


Bob

[jim_lewis]

Bob:
That's good news. I hope it works.
Jim

[Richard Hetzel]

Interesting.  Surprises me that Atlanta doesn't have a great standout  public course when you think about it.  But then again, until Bobby Jones, there wasn't an iconic sports hero for the south in golf.

These are my thoughts, exactly. For as large of a city and metro area Atlanta is, the pickings for really good public golf are scarce. You would like, with year round weather, there would be a lot better public courses from which to choose. That reminds me, someone on GCA still owes me a round at Eastlake!!!!!!

[Mike_Young]

The politics of the city make it nearly impossible for good public golf in ATL.  I question the group trying to solve North Fulton.  The wrong changes could destroy a very good golf course....Also with as many courses in ATL as there are it would not be right to the private operators of courses open to the public to fight the heavily subsidized munis that would come on board...

[A.G._Crockett]

I'm curious; how many MAJOR cities have great public golf courses within the center of the city itself?  Is Atlanta really atypical in this regard?

And in fairness to the city courses in the ATL, they DO serve a large constituency of avid golfers pretty well at an affordable rate, and they get a ton of play.  That they are not "destination" courses or in somebody's top 100 list is another question, isn't it?

METRO Atlanta is immense, around 30 counties, and there IS good public golf within that area.  But the city itself is NOT especially big, and the per capita income not especially high, with nearly 25% of the population of the city proper living below the poverty line.  That this does intersect with great public golf is hardly a surprise. 

[BCrosby]

Good point AG. Other than the Bethpage courses (which are a schlep for most people in the NYC metro area) and Harding Park in SF, what other cities have good in-town muni courses?


I look forward to hearing about lots of good counter examples. I will help make the the case with the City of Atlanta. But I can't think of many off the top of my head.



Bob

[Ben Hollerbach]

The Boston pair of George Wright and Franklin Park is what I think most metro areas would strive to have and probably are venues that city hall should be looking at when accessing properties like North Fulton.


I'm sure much could be learned from places like Cobbs Creek and Griffith Park. But I wonder if the renovation of Donald Ross's Bacon Park in Savannah is where we should be looking. Unfortunatly I don't know enough about the renovation and its potential post success but it could be a great case study to see the viability of putting more money into a course like North Fulton.

[Scott Weersing]

So which cities have great public, not resort courses?


From the Golf Digest list:


25. Chambers Bay- Tacoma
39. Torrey Pines- San Diego


From Golfweek:


TPC Scottdale, while it may be a resort course, it did receive public monies.
Laurel Hill, Lorton, VA, outside of Washington DC
Stevens Park, Dallas
Presidio, San Francisco
Murphy Creek, Aurora, CO (Denver)


What about the public courses in the Chicago area? Or Portland, OR?


The problem with big city, public golf is that the course will be crowded and beaten down, meaning not in great condition.

[BCrosby]

Torrey and Chambers aren't "in-town" courses, are they?


Bob

[A.G._Crockett]

So which cities have great public, not resort courses?


From the Golf Digest list:


25. Chambers Bay- Tacoma
39. Torrey Pines- San Diego


From Golfweek:


TPC Scottdale, while it may be a resort course, it did receive public monies.
Laurel Hill, Lorton, VA, outside of Washington DC
Stevens Park, Dallas
Presidio, San Francisco
Murphy Creek, Aurora, CO (Denver)


What about the public courses in the Chicago area? Or Portland, OR?


The problem with big city, public golf is that the course will be crowded and beaten down, meaning not in great condition.

Scott,
Most of the courses that you have listed wouldn't qualify as "in the city" courses; they are part of a metro area.  Approximating, here are some distances from Google maps:

10 miles from Tacoma to Chambers Bay
15 miles from San Diego to Torrey Pines
11 miles from Scottsdale to TPC, but 25 miles from Phoenix
21 miles from Laurel Hill to DC
21 miles from Denver to Murphy Creek

I think most large metro areas, including Atlanta, would have good to really good to great public offerings IF you expand to a 25 mile or so radius from the center city.  But I think there are very few cities in which you would find "destination" golf in the interior.

Your last sentence, I think, is the really important one:
"The problem with big city, public golf is that the course will be crowded and beaten down, meaning not in great condition."

This begs the question, "A problem to whom?"  Courses that are crowded are a good thing, right?  And even when a course gets lots of play, it CAN be in good shape IF the super can throw enough money at it, but that would mean higher fees and/or higher taxes, and that is NOT a good thing.

At the risk of beating a horse that has already passed away, I'll say it again:  The City of Atlanta public courses (N. Fulton, Bobby Jones, Browns Mill, Tup Holmes, et al) serve a purpose and have a pretty large constituency.  That they aren't on anybody's Top 100 list is neither uncommon for the interiors of large cities, nor does it really matter.

[John_Cullum]

but I wonder if the renovation of Donald Ross's Bacon Park in Savannah is where we should be looking. Unfortunatly I don't know enough about the renovation and its potential post success but it could be a great case study to see the viability of putting more money into a course like North Fulton.

Bacon Park's restoration is privately financed by a local entrepeneur who used to play there when he was a kid.

[Jim Nugent]

I'm curious; how many MAJOR cities have great public golf courses within the center of the city itself?  Is Atlanta really atypical in this regard?

NYC/Ferry Point might qualify. 

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