[Jim Lipstate]

Appreciate the replies. I was not familiar with The Walking Golfer website and ratings. I think much more needs to be done in this area. I was thinking about the Audubon Certification (controversial as that may be) sought by many courses as a prototype for a course with an interest in promoting itself as walking friendly. I thought it would be a nice marketing tool for a course to at least a niche market of golfers.

[Doug Siebert]

Arnold Palmer promotes carts by using them in his blood thinning commercials. Arnold should be ashamed of himself.

Arnold is in his mid 80s, shouldn't he be allowed a cart at this point?  If Phil did a commercial showing him golfing in a cart I would grant your point, but c'mon...

[Doug Siebert]

They haven't rated every course. They have listed a majority of courses, but the majority are not rated (at least in the states near me). Take a look at the Kentucky list, for example. Their list omits many of the state's most notable newer courses, lists other courses under old names that have since been changed, and they've rated less than 10% of the courses on their list:

http://thewalkinggolfer.com/walkability_ratings_ky.html


Ben, what criteria does thewalkinggolfer.com use to rate walkability? Is it just an arbitrary choice the reviewer makes, or do they have parameters?

This is interesting. I checked the ratings for Iowa and was looking for a few courses in particular I think would tell the tale about how well they do the ratings. I think they are pretty optimistic.

Hunters Ridge is green for "easy to walk". While it isn't particularly hilly there are several places where you have to walk over a quarter mile between holes, which makes it a little tough to keep pace with partners who are riding (or if a group of walkers had a group of riders behind them) I'd rate it yellow for manageable to walk.

Amana Colonies is listed yellow for "manageable to walk" which is ridiculous as it is very hilly and many holes have a very long trip between holes (especially if you are playing the tips) I love to walk, and walk almost all my rounds, but I'd never walk that course. I've only ever seen it done once, when I was playing out there before they had a tournament and a foursome of pros were walking behind us. They would have fallen way behind if we weren't having to wait a lot ourselves. I don't know what they do for tournaments out there, but I'll bet they have carts to shuttle them them between some of the longer green to tee trips. Anyone who considers this a manageable walk has probably never found a course he'd consider "tough to walk" let alone "essentially unwalkable"!

I was curious where they'd place Saddleback Ridge, but unfortunately it wasn't listed. I always walk this course but it is rare to see anyone else do it. There are a half dozen really steep uphill climbs up the namesake ridge, but the rest of it is fairly flat so I consider it an easy walk. But even back when my dad and his friends used to walk they never walked that course.

[Doug Siebert]

Just checked a few other states and noticed Sand Hills was listed as yellow for "manageable to walk". I think that pretty conclusively shows there is no consistent criteria being applied, as that's an easy walk in just about anyone's book! Anyone who had walked that and thought that Amana Colonies would be of similar difficulty based on that site's ratings would be in for quite a nasty surprise!

[BCowan]

Doug,

  Did u contact through email TWGS?  If not we have enough monday quarterbacks in society.  Should Golf Digest stop issuing top 25 courses in each state because I feel their rankings are laughable at best?  TWGS doesn't charge a fee to view their info.

[Doug Siebert]

I'm sure if I investigated I could find a way to contribute rankings, but without a standardized criteria they're just trading someone else's biases for my biases. There are a few universal criteria I think everyone would agree with - number and steepness of hills, green/tee distance, ability to walk in places other than the fairway or paths, consistency of paths (i.e. Dismal White's sand paths) "bugginess" and so forth, but how to weigh them?

Where Golf Digest is concerned, they've at least attempted to standardize how they do their rankings. One may disagree with the criteria they've chosen and how they are weighted, but you can usually see how they arrived at a specific ranking. They do have the advantage that a lot more people will be interested in ranking courses (especially with the perk of often getting free rounds) than would be interested in ranking courses' walkability. That's unfortunately a limited audience since most ride, and courses probably don't want to become known as a good walk because some feel walkers cost them revenue.

[BCowan]

If you think a formula or rating criteria is needed to rate walkability ratings ur part of the demise of common sense.  We had no criteria when we did our Michigan top 25 and for the most part the list turned out as if sane people created it. 

Instead of bitching about our lack of criteria or saying someone should do this....   Create your own with criteria, that's what I did with Michigan top 25, but I know that takes work and monday quarterbacking is easier.

[Jason Thurman]

Ben, you're the president of common sense. No one can take that from you. But the following Walking Golfer walkability ratings are pure nonsense:


Sharon Woods, Cincinnati, OH - I played a tournament there last summer. I played with 7 different guys over two days. All but one walked the course. As my local home course, I would guess that close to 40% of players out there walk it. It was built well before the advent of the motorized cart. The site rates it "essentially unwalkable" and suggests Ballyhack would be an easier stroll. Insert tears of laughter emoji here.


Wolf Run in Indiana is rated "tough to walk" (the Ballyhack category!) while the Ross Course at French Lick is rated "Easy to walk." I regularly walk 36+ at Wolf Run in a day, and the Ross at French Lick has the most severe terrain of any Ross I've ever played. There's no way that the Ross is two categories easier than Wolf Run, and anyone who has tried to walk 36 a day at Ballyhack should be psychologically evaluated when they finally make it back to the clubhouse sometime next spring.


Colorado Golf Club is rated Tough to Walk, just like Fossil Trace... and Ballyhack...


Crystal Downs and Kingsley Club are listed as "easy" walks, while Rustic Canyon is listed as only "manageable" thanks to some long green to tee transitions. There's no way in hell that either of those courses is easier to walk than Rustic Canyon.


The Walking Golfer's ratings are useless as long as they're so variable. I can't imagine anyone would ever feel comfortable looking at a rating from the site before choosing whether to walk or ride a course, as they'd be stuck in a cart while surrounded by walkers at Sharon Woods before being found dead in the ravine on 11 after trying to walk Ballyhack. For any "walking course" recognition to have value, it needs to be bestowed with some set of standard criteria in mind. Otherwise we're just randomly coloring a spreadsheet for fun and giving ourselves an excuse to hold events at private courses once in a while.

[Kalen Braley]

Interesting topic.

Haven't looked up what you have for the Northern Utah area, but there isn't much middle area for courses here.  Its either very walkable if it sits on the valley floor, or darn near impossible if its up on the bench or in the mountains somewhere.

That being said, there could be some variability based on the time of year the visit is done.  Even a flat, bottom-of-the-valley course can be a beast to walk in July or August when its 103 outside..but completely delightful when its 65 just a couple of months later.  The dry climate and the heat are a double whammy cause your losing a ton of water but its out of mind as it often evaporates off you before you get sweaty.

P.S.  I looked up the courses in Utah and must admit I found them pretty spot on. A few minor quibbles but nothing that was more than a category away.  Two of the cart only courses are that way for good reason, they would both be easy reds!!

P.P.S  Didn't see Sand Hollow on the list, I woulda thought that would been on this list given its the GCA best in Utah...

[Garland Bayley]

Arnold Palmer promotes carts by using them in his blood thinning commercials. Arnold should be ashamed of himself.

Arnold is in his mid 80s, shouldn't he be allowed a cart at this point?  If Phil did a commercial showing him golfing in a cart I would grant your point, but c'mon...

What infirmity does Arnold have that would keep him from walking? I know! They filmed the commercial at a cartball course.
Would Arnold be allowed a cart if he went to Bandon? I suspect not.

[Garland Bayley]

...but without a standardized criteria they're just trading someone else's biases for my biases....

Wrong. They would be averaging your biases with everyone else's. Isn't that how Tom D started course ratings at Golf Magazine? Got a bunch of people that knew about courses and averaged their opinions (biases). Walking golfers typically have walked enough to know about walking courses, so it's time to get your ratings in.

[Mike_Young]

Standardized criteria?  Sounds like a nerd alert to me....As a fat guy I have criteria for walking courses that would be entirely different than many on here.  BUT I find that most courses mentioned as walkable are fine by me.  Walking in the South is a different animal than in many other parts in summer and if one doesn't believe it then try it.  As long as there are no long treks from green to next tee and as ln is there is a weenie machine at half way house that can be reached form both 9's I am fine.  A frozen Snickers on top of that is a luxury...

[Keith OHalloran]

Arnold Palmer promotes carts by using them in his blood thinning commercials. Arnold should be ashamed of himself.

Arnold is in his mid 80s, shouldn't he be allowed a cart at this point?  If Phil did a commercial showing him golfing in a cart I would grant your point, but c'mon...

What infirmity does Arnold have that would keep him from walking? I know! They filmed the commercial at a cartball course.
Would Arnold be allowed a cart if he went to Bandon? I suspect not.

Although I suspect you are joking, and regret falling for it, I want to reply. I went to Bandon several years ago with an octogenarian WWII vet who was not inclined to visit a Dr for a cart note. I called Bandon, and they supplied a cart with no issues ( in fact they did several things to treat him well). To think that Arnold Palmer could not get a cart there is laughable. Again, I assume you made you statement in jest and I am being gullible.

[Paul Jones]

Ben,

Send me your email address and I can update the Louisiana Walkability list.

Thanks,
Paul
pauljones@live.com

[Paul Jones]

I have found the "type" of course is usually a great indication of walkability...  I would define the following "types"

Classic - Easy to Walk
New Subdivision - Hard
New Public - Hard
Golf Resort - Easy (Bandon, Streamsong, Pinehurst, etc...)
Family Resort - Medium to Hard

I do think it would be beneficial for any type of course that I have stereotyped in the list above as Medium to Hard Walk, if they would advertise as a Walking Course - I would be more inclined to go a play the course.

Just to be honest, I like to ride in the cart on my 2nd round of the day when on golf trips :-(

[Garland Bayley]

Paul,


Many will find Bandon Trails being rated an easy walk by you a bit of a surprise.

[BCowan]

Ben,

Send me your email address and I can update the Louisiana Walkability list.

Thanks,
Paul
pauljones@live.com

Paul,

   Thanks for reaching out to me and your efforts in updating the Louisiana Walkability list. It was nice we had a few others contact us as well. 

If anyone else would be interested in helping updating their state, feel free to message me or Rob. 

http://thewalkinggolfer.com/twg_walkability_ratings

[Adam Warren]

Ben,

I may talk with Jason about developing your Kentucky ratings.

[Mike Sweeney]

I think golf has lost the entire fitness craze, and here is my attempt to start it. I walked 18 holes today but I did bot have the monitor on. Here is a recent 18 hole walk with bag at Yale Golf Course, a hilly course.

[Jason Topp]

For me walking is a criteria I expect to always use in deciding whether to join a golf club.  It is surprising how many courses flunk that criteria, particularly in US retirement areas.  I have no problem with riding but simply looking at guys who are 70 years old and walk regularly demonstrates the health benefits of doing so.



What I really do not understand is courses that require carts even though they are very friendly walks.  One club in Florida has a course built through housing but is perfectly flat and cannot have a 100 yard green to tee walk.  If they allow walking at all it is very late in the day. 

[Mike Sweeney]

What I really do not understand is courses that require carts even though they are very friendly walks.  One club in Florida has a course built through housing but is perfectly flat and cannot have a 100 yard green to tee walk.  If they allow walking at all it is very late in the day.

Friendly reminder from a walker. There are two courses in Florida that require golfers to walk in prime season even though:

• They are tough walks, for Florida;
• They are allowing carry your own or take a caddy;
• The course has carts in the basement of the clubhouse.

It is really fabulous what Streamsong is doing and they are taking this policy to mid-April when it clearly is going to be very hot for the afternoon rounds. It is all about creating a culture and finding a niche:




Streamsong is providing an opportunity for the USGA to genuinely support walking. The problem is they take this general "walking is good" campaign and they try to blend it in everywhere and the message gets lost. It will only work if they target certain courses and economically support them during a transition period. Streamsong has the economic strength to make mistakes and adjust. Most don't have that luxury.

[Mike Sweeney]

Oops, repeat post by accident. Still learning the new system.

[BCowan]

For me walking is a criteria I expect to always use in deciding whether to join a golf club.  It is surprising how many courses flunk that criteria, particularly in US retirement areas.  I have no problem with riding but simply looking at guys who are 70 years old and walk regularly demonstrates the health benefits of doing so.



What I really do not understand is courses that require carts even though they are very friendly walks.  One club in Florida has a course built through housing but is perfectly flat and cannot have a 100 yard green to tee walk.  If they allow walking at all it is very late in the day.

Jason,

    I couldn't agree more with you.  Actually about 4 years ago I stumbled across The Walking Golfers Society while trying to find walking courses in Florida.  It's funny when people (starters) look at you like you are crazy walking a flat golf course on a 70 degree day.   Here is a good thread, has many Florida Gems in it.  I'd suggest one of my favs Ocala Golf Club if you are somewhat close in the future.

 http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,60726.msg1439904.html#msg1439904

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