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Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« on: May 29, 2016, 08:59:17 AM »
I was watching the European Tour and noticed that while the fairways were cut in a criss cross pattern the approach areas from about 30 yards from the green were mowed in an up and back pattern.  My experience has been that courses that have firm and fast fairways very often still have soft approaches and my guess is that greens need more water than fairways so some of that water meant for the greens is also applied to the approaches. (It frustratingly also very often happens to the greenside bunkers.) Can I presume that the mowing pattern I observed is done to try to keep the approaches firm or is being done for some other reason?

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2016, 09:44:25 AM »
I was watching the European Tour and noticed that while the fairways were cut in a criss cross pattern the approach areas from about 30 yards from the green were mowed in an up and back pattern.  My experience has been that courses that have firm and fast fairways very often still have soft approaches and my guess is that greens need more water than fairways so some of that water meant for the greens is also applied to the approaches. (It frustratingly also very often happens to the greenside bunkers.) Can I presume that the mowing pattern I observed is done to try to keep the approaches firm or is being done for some other reason?

 Probably for complete definition and may even be a lower mowing height. Its really hard to get angles to match up from fwy to approach because of the size of more and makes it appear even more" busy" that it already is. 
  Mowing pattern wouldn't have anything to do with firmness of softness. 
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2016, 10:15:44 AM »
Keeping approaches firm is a difficult thing to do.  I learned the importance of it when I was in Scotland ... at St. Andrews Walter Woods topdressed the approaches just as much as the greens.


On several of my early courses we tried extra construction in that area to keep them firm and fast ... for example, building the approaches as well as the greens out of sand, when working in heavier soils, or using a different bermudagrass that could be mowed tighter than the fairways. 


It doesn't often work out.  Putting sand on the approaches makes them much tougher to grow in.  And then years later, I go back and see they aren't spending the money on topdressing the approaches or mowing them tighter, so the extra aggressive grass just produces more thatch and plays LESS firm than if we'd just taken a standard approach.


Has anyone out there had success with a particular approach or approaches?

Ben Lovett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2016, 12:47:38 PM »
It was done originally as a change in mowing direction to avoid grain
Once done it was noted it highlighted the greens on TV very well
It works well on raised greens which seems what most of Wentworths are
So basically nothing more than Greenkeepers messing around with mowing patterns and nothing to do with watering

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2016, 02:12:54 PM »
For playing qualities, I would think a side-to-side mowing pattern in front of greens would be better. Given an elevated green, you wouldn't want one ball spinning back down the fairway because it's rolling downgrain on a mower stripe while another ball stops because it's going into the grain. Likewise, if two balls are 10 feet off the front of a green, you wouldn't want one going into the grain and the other down.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2016, 03:36:35 PM »
I presume Jerry is referring to the Euro-PGA from Wentworth played over the last few days. As Ben says it's messing around with mowing patterns (to look good on TV). As to watering, given that the weather's been pretty mild, certainly not in any way hot, so far this year, why would there need to be much, if indeed any, watering, other than that decending from the clouds?
Atb

Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2016, 03:30:51 AM »
The only way to properly manage the firmness of the approach is to properly manage the irrigation.  In many instances, this means micro-managing the heads that directly influence those areas, as well as the ones that indirectly influence those areas.  In my experience, this is rarely done.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.”

BCowan

Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2016, 10:29:16 PM »
This is one of the better threads.  Does Bermuda in season accumulate thatch?  Does properly maintained southern courses do a mechanical procedure (verticutting) to eliminate thatch or grain to help bounce shots onto greens? 

In the North, brushes on the front of green mowers have done a great job of removing grain. 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2016, 11:36:48 PM by Ben Cowan (Michigan) »

Tom Bacsanyi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2016, 11:33:11 PM »
The only way to properly manage the firmness of the approach is to properly manage the irrigation.  In many instances, this means micro-managing the heads that directly influence those areas, as well as the ones that indirectly influence those areas.  In my experience, this is rarely done.

Respectfully disagree.  Cultural practices, as in aerification, v-cuts, and topdressing especially are most important.  Taking a soft, thatchy approach and turning the water off will leave it soft and dead, not firm and fast.  Second would be irrigation management.  That is not to say that the above is not a good idea.  If you have the horses, it is best to hand water greens and surrounds daily.
Don't play too much golf. Two rounds a day are plenty.

--Harry Vardon

Justin VanLanduit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2016, 04:02:35 PM »
Keeping approaches firm is a difficult thing to do.  I learned the importance of it when I was in Scotland ... at St. Andrews Walter Woods topdressed the approaches just as much as the greens.


On several of my early courses we tried extra construction in that area to keep them firm and fast ... for example, building the approaches as well as the greens out of sand, when working in heavier soils, or using a different bermudagrass that could be mowed tighter than the fairways. 


It doesn't often work out.  Putting sand on the approaches makes them much tougher to grow in.  And then years later, I go back and see they aren't spending the money on topdressing the approaches or mowing them tighter, so the extra aggressive grass just produces more thatch and plays LESS firm than if we'd just taken a standard approach.


Has anyone out there had success with a particular approach or approaches?


We have put a lot of emphasis on our approaches over the last 4 years.  In 2011 we did a renovation of greens; gas/regrass.  At that time I decided to also gas/regrass approaches which were seeded to a 50/50 blend of PennEagleII/PennLinksII.  At this time we made the decision to treat the approaches as if they were our greens; topdressed each time we top greens then every other topping we double topdress the approaches.  We are now mowing them at .250".  Any spray application done to greens is done to approaches; 2 acres isn't going to break the bank or take too much more time to do.  Aggressive aerification at reseeding allowed us to get a lot of sand into the profile, we continue with the approach of cultural practices with brushing, grooming, verticutting, multiple aerifications with heavy topdressing.  We are currently in the process of initial stages of a new irrigation system and one of my biggest things is control of water on approaches.  Very well could have 3 or 4 heads in groups to get water on approaches when needed and not getting hit from fwy or rough surround heads.  We are seeing progress although a ways to go.  Next up is drainage, all greens have XGD.  Looking to start an inhouse project like XGD for them so they can dry down even more. 
« Last Edit: June 02, 2016, 04:05:03 PM by Justin VanLanduit »

BCowan

Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2016, 06:04:58 PM »
Justin,

   Nice post.  Did you do a deep core Aeration on the approaches by any chance?  Is that needed IYO?  Are you going to install XGD on your approaches too?  This thread is really important to Architecture IMO.  I'm interested in getting southern grass keepers opinion on this as well. 

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2016, 08:46:35 PM »
We are very aggressive on southern turf. We take things down to dirt, literally in some cases. Fraze mowing just takes all the thatch out all together and is becoming very popular.

https://youtu.be/yyomc_0oIK8

Graden is also important, dryject, multiple aerifications, aggressive aerification, circle cutting. Bermuda can be a monster.

https://youtu.be/ttuC8qvVdk4

https://youtu.be/CQ6eb6oJw6s
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Justin VanLanduit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2016, 05:55:33 AM »
Justin,

   Nice post.  Did you do a deep core Aeration on the approaches by any chance?  Is that needed IYO?  Are you going to install XGD on your approaches too?  This thread is really important to Architecture IMO.  I'm interested in getting southern grass keepers opinion on this as well.


We haven't pull deep cores but we do deeptine and go down 10" with a 3/4" tine.  This is done at the same time we use our conventional aerifier pulling cores then coat with sand and drag it in getting those holes filled.  Deeper channels to pull water will only help things dry faster.  We are going to start to target certain approaches to do in-house XGD; sure we won't do as smooth as a job that they did on our greens but we can get it done.  Prior to regrassing greens we had been on a drill n fill program to get sand channels in our 92yr old pushup greens.  I feel this process helped our greens substantially then the addition of XGD later significantly helped.  The more channels down to that drainage will only make it more effective.
I feel the approach is the 2nd most important area to a golf hole behind the green.  Since doing our approaches I've had numerous positive comments regarding their playability, some negative as well but mostly positive.  The options available now are endless; wedge, 6 iron, 8 iron, utility wood, 3 wood, putter whatever you choose.  I do get comments from those that feel a 56 or a 60 degree should be used at all times and they feel it's mowed too tight and they can't pick the ball.

Justin VanLanduit

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Green Approach Mowing Patterns
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2016, 05:57:34 AM »
We are very aggressive on southern turf. We take things down to dirt, literally in some cases. Fraze mowing just takes all the thatch out all together and is becoming very popular.

https://youtu.be/yyomc_0oIK8

Graden is also important, dryject, multiple aerifications, aggressive aerification, circle cutting. Bermuda can be a monster.

https://youtu.be/ttuC8qvVdk4

https://youtu.be/CQ6eb6oJw6s


I love watching you southern boys beat the snot out of turf!  Get jealous at times.  I have found that some of those practices like circle cutting and backtrack vcut do great things on bent too!  How's that pup!?

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