Austin CC?

[Matt Kardash]

From a television standpoint, I think this was one of the most interesting courses to watch the pros play that I have seen in the last few years. This course seems to have a really good set of greens, a lot of movement, firm and fast conditions, and is beautiful. I get the feeling this course isn't talked about much because few people here have actually played it. Seems like a Dye hidden gem.

[BHoover]

I really enjoyed watching the match play at ACC. I could imagine playing there regularly and enjoying it.

[Rick Emerson]

Someone mentioned Kapalua. I was thinking the same thing. The course kind of reminds me of Kapalua in a lot of spots with the extreme topography. Someone also mentioned the course was too long for them, which is funny since on the telecast they refereed to it as a short course, since it is barely 7000 yards long.

The too long guy was me. It is true that the course is less than 7100 but it was really lush when I played with very little roll. Also, with other players of my comparable handicap usually driving it 20 to 40 yards past me it was too long for me to keep up in tournament play. I usually keep up with good players with the wedges and putter. I think the golf course is great fun. It seems long on certain holes because there are a lot of half par holes. Also, 11 and 12  have over 200 yard forced carries from the tips and lost ball for a left miss. There are a few short 4's and quite a few long fours. If I was a member and could play from the blue tees, this course would be a blast to play on a regular basis. It is in my top 10 in Texas. I think difficult courses are fun. I also think driving the first green is crazy. Most people seemed to hit 3 wood wedge in the qualifier. Just to show how short I am I hit a 250 yard drive and a 9 iron.

[Matt Kardash]

Someone mentioned Kapalua. I was thinking the same thing. The course kind of reminds me of Kapalua in a lot of spots with the extreme topography. Someone also mentioned the course was too long for them, which is funny since on the telecast they refereed to it as a short course, since it is barely 7000 yards long.

The too long guy was me. It is true that the course is less than 7100 but it was really lush when I played with very little roll. Also, with other players of my comparable handicap usually driving it 20 to 40 yards past me it was too long for me to keep up in tournament play. I usually keep up with good players with the wedges and putter. I think the golf course is great fun. It seems long on certain holes because there are a lot of half par holes. Also, 11 and 12  have over 200 yard forced carries from the tips and lost ball for a left miss. There are a few short 4's and quite a few long fours. If I was a member and could play from the blue tees, this course would be a blast to play on a regular basis. It is in my top 10 in Texas. I think difficult courses are fun. I also think driving the first green is crazy. Most people seemed to hit 3 wood wedge in the qualifier. Just to show how short I am I hit a 250 yard drive and a 9 iron.

I think the course plays especially short if you have tour pro length. it seems that if you can hit the ball in the 300 yard range you hit a lot of downslopes that give you an extra 50 yards. I don't think I saw any player hit more than an 8 or 9 iron into any par 4, unless they missed the fairway and didn't get the extra roll. The yardage on the scorecard was under 7100 yards, but I would guess the course played no longer than 6500 yards in reality during the tournament. Every par 4 was hit with a wedge, all the par 5s with irons, sometimes even short irons.

[Edward Moody]

Have some insights based on my playing ACC regularly and spending Mon-Sat at the tourney...


The Golf Course
ACC is a stern test of golf, IMO.  As others have noted, the membership plays the lake holes first and the hill country holes second.  The lake holes are pretty special, and the 3rd (12th for the tournament) is one of the best par 5s in the state (Spieth calls the tee shot his favorite in TX).  The back 9 is a beast, esp holes 11-13.  Things settle down for awhile and the 17th (8th for the tourney) is a fairly tame par 5, although the pros played it from the one-up tees as a par 4.  It was the same tee we play from as a par 5 and even then I've hit 6 iron in so it isn't that long.  The 18th is very pretty and very hard, but these guys carved this hole to pieces.  They took very aggressive lines and just flew all the trouble down the right and if they executed they would hit SW in.  The other 51 weeks of the year this is one of the hardest holes in the state.


As we know with Pete Dye, he gives you lots of things to look at and be scared of.  If you can block those things out and see the good areas he has given you to work with, there is some joy in the ACC course.  But you really have to be on your game.  An errant swing here or there, or a bad decision here or there, and your round is toast. 


The golf course opened late last year after a big renovation.  All greens were rebuilt and the entire course was re-grassed.  Some trees were removed and bunker work took place, as well. 


WGC Dell Match Play
The tournament was a great success.  The tour has wanted to come to Austin for a long time and the match play event was just the right tournament and ACC was just the right venue.  A former tour player and Austin resident and I have had many conversations over the past year about this event and we both agreed that a stroke play event would be tricky at ACC, but match play should (and did) work quite well.  Reversing the 9s was great for TV and the fans.  Attendance was capped so getting around wasn't that bad.  It isn't a stadium course, or a course built for a tour event, so there were some tight squeezes, but overall the fan experience was very good.  The venue was quite intimate so fans were able to be very close to the players in and around the clubhouse and practice areas.  This event specifically and this town are quite a pair and I believe it will stay past the 3 year contract period.


GCA
Can't post on this site w/o discussing the GCA angle!  Someone asked about the land...well the lake holes are great!  But this is a tricky site.  Holes 1-2, then 8-16 are up in the hills and through homesites.  Holes 17-18 are tucked over in another corner of the property, but are still hilly and rocky.  Holes 3-7 are down near the water and greatly contrast the others on property.  Given the land, Dye did a great job and the re-work was very, very good.  However, this is the hill country of Austin and so many holes are just hard and punishing because of canyons and ravines.  This is also true of other notable or well-known courses in the area, such as Barton Creek and Spanish Oaks.  Austin Golf Club is the exception, as the golf course there, despite being situated in the hills west of Austin, is primarily based in a valley, which makes AGC play more like a parkland style course.  In fact, there are no forced carries or water, except for a natural spring left of the 12th green.

[Edward Moody]

Also, in regard to the length, the fairways were cut very tight and rolled (from what I was told).  The course usually plays heavier than it did for the WGC.  The drives on some holes were rolling 80 yards.  So at 7000 yards it is extremely short for those guys.

[David_Tepper]

Edward M. -

Thanks for your comprehensive review. Very much appreciated.

DT

[Jason Topp]

Thanks Edward.  It seemed to me that the short par 4 where everyone bounced it off the grandstand might have been more interesting for tournament play if they raised the grandstand above the ground and allowed long tee shots to go in the water.  Do you agree?

How many balls does the average 15 handicapper lose playing that course?

[Ben Kodadek]

Thanks Edward.  It seemed to me that the short par 4 where everyone bounced it off the grandstand might have been more interesting for tournament play if they raised the grandstand above the ground and allowed long tee shots to go in the water.  Do you agree?

How many balls does the average 15 handicapper lose playing that course?

Tom Kite was in the booth discussing this hole.  He provided more thoughtful analysis on design and golf in 15 minutes than NBC, CBS and Golf Channel have provided all year! 


He said that during high end amateur events at ACC, that hole plays more over par than any other hole on the course.   Essentially, it gives guys an opportunity to rinse it twice.  He too was bummed out that the grandstand was in play. 

[Edward Moody]

Jason, as Ben noted Tom Kite's comments, this hole is tricky during regular play.  As soon as I saw the grandstands going up weeks ago I thought "well, I know the play here".  I thought it was kind of boring that they guys just bombed shots through the green and up against the tent.  That certainly wasn't the design intent.  From the one-up tees I usually hit 4 or 5 iron down the right and then a 80-100 yard shot in.  Even downwind I've never gone for that green because w/o the tent you can get into serious trouble over the back.  That hole is so fun and so hard normally because the green is tiny and severely pitched toward the water so even an 80 shot can cause great angst.


In terms of lost balls for the 15 'capper...better throw in a couple extra sleeves!

[JMEvensky]

Where in Austin is ACC?  My frame of reference is now 40 years old but I'm guessing this was the sticks when I was in school.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Lorne Rubinstein has a difference of opinon on the format:


http://scoregolf.com/blog/lorne-rubenstein/a-mockery-of-match-play/

[David_Tepper]

Steve S. -

Lorne R.'s opinions are about the format of the event, not the course. Do you know if he commented about the course in any of his blogs?

DT

[Steve_ Shaffer]

David,


Just did a search on Scoregolf.com and couldn't find anything. Apparently, he wasn't there in Austin. He winters in FL.


http://scoregolf.com/blog/lorne-rubenstein/

[mike_beene]

It is where 360 crosses the river.360 is a semi loop west of ?Mo Pac. Think of where Barton .springs is and go North and probably a little west

[Bill_McBride]

Thanks Edward.  It seemed to me that the short par 4 where everyone bounced it off the grandstand might have been more interesting for tournament play if they raised the grandstand above the ground and allowed long tee shots to go in the water.  Do you agree?

How many balls does the average 15 handicapper lose playing that course?

A buddy of mine said they don't make enough balls for him to play the course. 


If you raised the grandstand so balls could go under and into the water, the drop and relief would be difficult.

[Bill_McBride]

Also, in regard to the length, the fairways were cut very tight and rolled (from what I was told).  The course usually plays heavier than it did for the WGC.  The drives on some holes were rolling 80 yards.  So at 7000 yards it is extremely short for those guys.

Thanks for the excellent report.  Given the opportunity, would you rather play ACC or AGC?

[Ken Moum]

Lorne Rubinstein has a difference of opinon on the format:


http://scoregolf.com/blog/lorne-rubenstein/a-mockery-of-match-play/

As much as I love match play, and love Lorne, he's wrong on this one.


True, Wednesday was boring... sort of.  It did bother me a bit when I realized that some of those tough matches might not really make a difference.


But there's no way to make good weekend TV out of a real match play format.  If Lorne had held his opinion until Friday afternoon, he might (should) have sung a different tune.


There was plenty of drama about who was going to advance, and the fact that they allowed havled matches to stand meant that several of the groups were totally up in the air until the very last minute.  Some weren't, but that's okay too IMHO.


We had good matches on the weekend, all the top names were there. Some interesting upsets.


He sounds like me when I'm being a cranky old man...


K

[Josh Stevens]

how many stone walls is too many?

[Rich Goodale]

Well I saw on twitter today and Austin CC had been compared favourably to Royal Dornoch by one knowledgeable scribe

So it must be good.

Nice irony, Josh,,,,


My wife and I watched a bit of the golf on the telly in a hotel in Dornoch, and agreed that there were some interesting GCAwingnut features (particularly around the greens) but overall it was a Doak 6.3.

[Jason Topp]

If you raised the grandstand so balls could go under and into the water, the drop and relief would be difficult.

I bet they could figure that one out through a drop area.

[Rick Emerson]

In terms of lost balls for the 15 'capper...better throw in a couple extra sleeves!

+1
The average 15 handicapper has a good chance to lose a ball on 2,3, and 4. Then a few more on a couple of the other par 3's with forced carries over gullies/washes. I think there is also a chance to lose more than 1 ball on 11 and 12. They could lose a ball on both the tee shot and approach shot.

[Matt MacIver]

As a 15 I hate to hear the course is that penal, since it looks so fun on tv. I can put up with penal+fun but penal+slog takes a lot of the fun out.

[Edward Moody]

Bill - I'm biased, and there are several factors that influence whether I play one over the other, but from the golf course standpoint I prefer AGC.  ACC has some real beauty and some jaw-dropping looks, but it is hard and taxing.  I also think the greens are too undulating for the speeds they keep them (fast) so being out of position around the greens can be tormenting.  I understand there should be a price to pay for missing in the wrong spot (and there certainly is at AGC) but the slopes and contours can be quite severe in spots.


AGC is completley different than ACC, and for that matter any other course in the area.  As I noted previously there are no hazards, unless you count the native which can be very penal during the spring and summer.  Additionally, there is more variety in the shots you can play at AGC, esp around the greens.  I've always described AGC as easy to play but hard to score.  ACC is hard to play and hard to score.  Out of ten times, I would probably lean AGC 8-2.


Matt, in terms of the penal nature, I think it has more to do with the nature of the land vs. the design.  Most of these TX hill country courses are situated through canyons and creeks so there will just be forced carries and water to gobble up errant shots.  In my opinion it is unfortunate to have that contour.  It makes for a "wow" factor for visiting players but for the guys that live and play here everyday it can be frustrating.

[Dave McCollum]

I enjoyed the Florida swing and the Match Play and how they seemed to provide an entertaining use of a bunch of courses most wouldn’t enjoy playing.  Let’s be honest, these aren’t golf courses for the average recreational golfer.  They’re tricked up water parks requiring do-or-die heroic shots with no chance of recovery or, in ACC’s case a combination of water park and unplayable, rocky, vegetated ravines that play as the same.  Perfect for a dramatic competition for the best players in the world, but reminders of an architectural dark age where golf design lost track of the game and its primary purpose:  to provide  pleasurable excitement to the greatest number of golfers.  Toss in a bit of breeze and even the best players on the planet struggle.