Shortest aggregate green-to-tee walks among American courses

[Bill_Yates]

For comparative purposes, the green to tee distances that I measured at The Old Course (from the center of the green to the center of the next tee) was a total of 793 yards. The shortest distance was 25 yards, from 8 green to 9 tee, and the longest distance was from 13 green to 14 tee and measured 75 yards.

[Andy Shulman]

Was just going to mention The Old Course, so +1 as the saying goes.

[Nigel Islam]

Wannamoisett in RI would get my vote

In the US this might be the shortest of the courses I've played. Blue Mound and Broadmoor (Indianapolis) are contenders. The Old Course would get my vote were it eligible.

[Keith OHalloran]

The Bridge has gone from 1120 feet to about 520 and 4-500 vertical feet less of green to tee hikes.
Black tees-even less to championship tees

And a phenomenal job you did!

[Tim Gavrich]

I appreciate the responses so far. In terms of how to measure, I'd say do whatever makes most sense to you, which is probably to measure to whatever tees you'd play.


Re: Wannamoisett, I haven't played it, but it seems as though the compactness of the property, which might at first appear a hindrance, actually ends up fostering the ease of the walk. I wonder if the "If you've got a bunch of land, you might as well use it" philosophy of routing actually ends up hurting the routing in some cases.


Are there any courses where the closeness of tees to previous greens actually poses a threat to players? I seriously doubt it.


Given that water is going to increasingly be a resource to be used prudently/sparingly on golf courses, is the ability to finagle a good routing into a smallish piece of property as important a virtue of a golf course architect as any, going forward?


These short walks from green to tee add so much to the charm of courses. Perhaps economic circumstances in the future will bring these commitment to a golf course's physical coherence back into vogue, and actually result in an increase in the average quality of golf course architecture. I hope this happens.

[Keith OHalloran]

I would think Southampton is about 90 total yards

[jeffwarne]

I would think Southampton is about 90 total yards

while I would agree it is very compact and one of the best walks, I'd put the number over 300 yards.
2-3 crosses a road and is at least 45-50. 7-8 has to be 60-70

[Keith OHalloran]

Yeah, I think that estimate must have been influenced by St Patrick's day! 

[jeffwarne]

Yeah, I think that estimate must have been influenced by St Patrick's day! 

 30 yard reduction per green beer?

[Tim_Weiman]

Playing the daily tees , Pine Valley is fabulous in this regard. Only the walk between 11 and 12 is more than a chip shot , and it's seems longer because it's vertical .

Archie,


Pine Valley is so good that the first time I walked 11 to 12 I wondered if maybe I just didn't know where #12 tee was. Then, I was like "wow, glad I got that little adventure out of the way".


The course spoils you

[Jeff Shelman]

Raleigh Country Club is really good in this. No long walks anywhere on the property.

It obviously helps when the walk from 9 to 10 is short and there are no road crossings.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Short green to tee walks are a top priority of mine when routing holes / courses.

That said, I think there is some serious underestimation of yardages on this thread and little consideration of safety on busy courses with modern equipment. Any course with 800 yards total (centre green to centre tee) is just about perfect. Anything under about 1,200 yards still seems pretty pleasant if there are not too many vertical yards covered.

Tees can be placed closer to greens if directly behind rather than to the side on parallel holes. Safety can sometimes be overplayed and I'm not averse to putting tees closer to greens than certain guidelines advocate. But safety most definitely is a consideration.

[Joe Sponcia]

A couple of examples:


Holston Hills: 


#8 in the background, #9 box below





#15 Flag showing, below #16 tee box

[Tim_Cronin]

Onwentsia has to be a candidate. Fifteen-yard walks, tops, from green to tee in the majority of places. It's five yards from the edge of the first green to the back of the second tee.
Longest walk is from nine green to 10 tee, around the tennis courts. Next-longest is 16 green to 17 tee, maybe 60 yards through the woods.
Bet it's under 420 yards total.

[Keith OHalloran]

Yeah, I think that estimate must have been influenced by St Patrick's day! 

 30 yard reduction per green beer?

Boy, you are a good estimator! 

[David Stamm]

Wannamoisett was the first one to come to mind. Garden City has to be up there as well. Valley Club is another off the top of my head, albeit there is crossing of Sheffield involved.
 

[Bill_McBride]

A little surprised you did not mention Mid Pines .......  I wonder how much work Kyle Franz did  on this topic at MP.

Mid Pines immediately came to mind for me as well.   

[Thomas Dai]

Seems like more and more the walk back to the championship tee can be pretty significant, and sometimes not easy to even find, as can the walk forward to the front (red/ladies) tee. The former is these days essentially only of analytical interest whilst the location of the latter is become of more interest every year (day!).


Atb

[David_Madison]

Mid-Pines was mentioned earlier in this thread. I calculated the total at under 500 yards, with a number of tee complexes being practically attached to the preceding green complex.

[Mark Johnson]

Somerset in St. Paul feels like the shortest walk i can remember.   didnt actually measure though.


Cant remember a hole where it was more than 20 yards, usually less

[Matthew Petersen]

I played Talking Stick-North last week and it must be close to the shortest anywhere in the Phoenix area (certainly the shortest for a desert course, it's competitors would only be places like Phoenix CC or GCU).


Using Google Earth and measuring from center of greens to where the gold (middle) tees are, roughly, it comes in at about 1,100 yards. The front nine mostly has shorter walks with virtually all the tees on a continuously grassed area from the prior green, really only a few steps from the edges of those greens. The back has a few that are slightly longer, since there tends to be some separation in grassing areas. The only walks of length are crossover holes--from 6 green to 7 tee you have to walk by #10 first, and from #10 green to #11 tee you get a 150 yard walk as you bypass the seventh green and eighth tee.


No elevation change to speak of. Really a pleasant walk.

[Tom_Doak]

Flat courses are always going to be better for short green-to-tee walks, because there is no topography to make the architect want to align the next tee in some particular way [or get a better view].


I don't mind having a couple of bigger walks somewhere during the round if the other green-to-tee distances are very short.


Strangely enough, courses with continuous cart paths have more difficulty with setting up short green-to-tee walks, because if you're going to put the path in between green and tee it can't be too close to the green, and if it's going on the other side that's a long way for the cart riders to walk over to the green.      I've had a couple of instances where I couldn't put the tee in a perfect location because there was no place to put the path.   

[Matthew Petersen]

That's an interesting and fair point, Tom. Talking Stick is an incredibly unique site, not least of which in how much they did by doing so little with so little.


I checked the walks for C&C's Saguaro course at WeKoPa and was surprised that it actually came in at even less walking green-to-tee than TSN. Just a hair over 1,000 yards there. As you say, most of the longer ones are the result of putting a tee on a hill somewhere, though there are also couple holes that crossover there (the crossover from 11 green to 12 tee is the longest walk there by far). But sometimes even if it's a longer walk uphill that feels more engaging than a walk on flat ground, which doesn't carry the same sort of anticipation as climbing does.


Saguaro is not on flat land like TSN, but it is much less hilly than your Apache Stronghold. That comes in at just around 1,400 yards, pretty impressive for the site. The vast majority of that comes in the back nine (well, no the front nine) holes that are really up in the hills--up the hill from 13 green to 14 tee, across the wash from 15 green to 16 tee, up the hill from 17 to 18 green. It should also be noted that with the nines now being reversed, 9 to 10 would be a very long walk, while it was not at all in the original routing.


One thing that both Apache and Saguaro do well to accommodate the walker is to provide walker paths through the desert, where cart paths have to take a longer way around (think of the small path behind the 4th green at AS, whereas the cart path winds all the way around the bluff right of the green). These are immensely helpful. I checked out the green to tee distance at WeKoPa's other course, the Cholla, and it comes in at over 1,700 yards. This is still surely win the low end for many desert style courses, since there's no real estate component there at all--no homes to account for, no roads to cross. But much of the walking, if you were to walk it, would be along the cart paths as no specific walking paths are provided (and in the desert you're not about to make your own path).

[archie_struthers]

 




Wow, re-read this and noticed the numbers on St. Andrews.  As a self acknowledged Pine Valley sycophant , figured my favorite golf course had the 790 yards beaten easily . Just did the numbers in my head and amazingly it added up to around 350 yards.
Couldn't think of anyplace that I have seen that even comes close . On many of the holes if you trip and roll off the green you end up on the next tee.

[Craig Disher]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Pinehurst #2. Except for 9-10 (white tee) and 10-11 the distances are insignificant. And it gets bonus points for 18-1 after a quick stop for a drink on the patio.

Southern Pines CC might have even less overall distance.