Rip Valspar Van Winkle

[John Kavanaugh]

Wow. What a snooze fest. Do slow greens make a fine course boring or is Innisbrook just a disaster?


On a side note: What would be the harm in giving players range finders to curtail some of this unrelenting caddie chatter?

[Dave McCollum]

Isn't the caddie better than the announcer's babble?

[John Kavanaugh]

Isn't the caddie better than the announcer's babble?

No, they are filling time between shots. I did enjoy the beard/hostage joke only because it bombed in an epic way only found on live TV.

[Ronald Montesano]

Copperhead course redid all of its greens after last year's event. They are probably six months young. I suspect that you and your (Hudson) crew will awaken next year from your 365-day doze to find your wife's nagging done and to quicker greens at the Copperhead.

[John Kavanaugh]

Thanks Mr. Van Bummel. The broadcasters mentioned/apologized for this fact repeatedly. One thing I did notice was that they never said who did the restoration. Reminded me of last week when I never heard the name Hanse. Conspiracy?


Is Innisbrook any fun, it looks perfectly horrid. Like a leisure suit to tight in the crotch.

[Dave McCollum]

Each to their own.  Maybe the caddie chatter and announcer babble are both worthy of the mute button.  I enjoy watching TV golf occasionally, but only on DVR delay so I can skip whatever I want, which usually means 1/3 to 1/2 of the broadcast.  Seems to me that most of time-filling between shots are inane commercials.  You're correct, a total snooze-fest.  What I did find puzzling was how these pros never seemed to adjust to  the slow greens.  Isn't that part of the test?  OK, a disclaimer:  I wouldn't want to play any of the courses on the "Florida Swing."  Yet, I have to admit that if somebody has to play them, it should be the best golfers in the world, once a year, for big bucks, and that hacks like me should stick to more fun options.  Doesn't sound like a reasonable business plan to me, but what do I know?     

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Wadsworth did the reno with in house help:


http://www.tampabay.com/sports/golf/innisbrooks-copperhead-course-gets-a-little-sprucing-up/2238000

[John Kavanaugh]

The announcers did point out the amateur kid had an advantage on the slow greens because that is what he usually sees in competition. I was surprised after practice and three days of play none of the pros could adjust.

[Dave McCollum]

Amen. 

[John Kavanaugh]

Wadsworth did the reno with in house help:


http://www.tampabay.com/sports/golf/innisbrooks-copperhead-course-gets-a-little-sprucing-up/2238000

How is that a renovation?

[John Kavanaugh]

I suppose it was a renovation not a restoration. My mistake.

[Terry Lavin]

I haven't been to Innisbrook in 20 years, but we used to have a lot of fun there.  Copperhead ain't easy, but if one doesn't bite off too much at the tee, it's not a brutal track.    I vaguely remember an Arthur Hills course at the resort that was the standard "how much of the pond do I challenge" Florida kind of experience.  For me, I'm impressed that Copperhead can still host a tour event.  That doesn't mean that it's my favorite kind of golf course, but it does mean that the resort maintains some sort of relevance that must help it in getting groups to play/stay there.

[jeffwarne]

I have to admit that if somebody has to play them, it should be the best golfers in the world, once a year, for big bucks, and that hacks like me should stick to more fun options.  Doesn't sound like a reasonable business plan to me, but what do I know?   

That IS the business plan.
Fans see course on TV-want to play it.
The worst part is they bring home ideas from the crap resort they played.


Course looked abysmal on TV-electric green rye,super white bunkers.


Did anyone notice DeLaet was clean shaven when he walked into the bunker on 16.......
Talk about undue Delaet


Always interesting to me that clubs spend milions to presumably provide more challenge--- speed up their greens, then flatten them because of the slope .......when in actuality the ONLY time pros struggle on greens is when they are slow

[Ronald Montesano]

I enjoyed Copperhead. I played it up (probably around 6300 yards) as it was wet AND we had to go cartpath only (a few weeks out from the tournament.) It reminded me a bit of an out-of-season, northern course. I would play it again, but not if I were going to be charged what high-end courses charge.

[John Kavanaugh]

Ron,


Do you have a link to your review?


Better yet, do you know Don from Buffalo or his wife. I love his review.


http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/course.aspx?course=191045

[Jeff_Brauer]

Haven't played there in years, but the Copperhead was always the prettiest course, and the Island was a bit tougher. All designed by Packard, none by Hills as suggested, unless he did some light remodels.

Not sure why it was wet, although I do know they have effluent water, and maybe they have to use certain amounts.  Or, they were watering in an overseed.

[BCrosby]

JeffWarne notes: "Always interesting to me that clubs spend milions to presumably provide more challenge--- speed up their greens, then flatten them because of the slope .......when in actuality the ONLY time pros struggle on greens is when they are slow."

Yep. First, I was surprised at how often the pros left putts short. I can't remember a pro event where it happened so often.

Second, I was surprised at how many well hit approach shots bounded over greens.

Could it be that at the Valspar they achieved the magical "firm and slow" meld?

Bob

[MCirba]

Better yet, do you know Don from Buffalo or his wife. I love his review.


http://www.golflink.com/golf-courses/course.aspx?course=191045

Happens all the time with marginal golf course architecture and subsequently easily distracted employees.

[Ronald Montesano]

Fortunately, my name is not Justin.


I'm certain that Don is a fine fellow; after all, he's from Buffalo.


But back to the Copperhead. The one thing I remember about the greens is that they range from board-flat to undulating as heck. #18 is wicked, but some of the others are cures for insomnia. It's an interesting thing to find that on a tour course.

[Martin Lehmann]

I played The Copperhead a couple of years ago, so before the renovation. Really liked this course. It's not spectacular or overly pretty, but it's what I would call a 'what you see is what you get' type of golf course. Standing on the tee, the hole strategy is immediately clear and evident. No fancy design gimmicks, no surprises. A true test of golf. What makes it nice too, is the balance and easy flow the course has. Would love to play it again.

[BCowan]

JeffWarne notes: "Always interesting to me that clubs spend milions to presumably provide more challenge--- speed up their greens, then flatten them because of the slope .......when in actuality the ONLY time pros struggle on greens is when they are slow."

Yep. First, I was surprised at how often the pros left putts short. I can't remember a pro event where it happened so often.

Second, I was surprised at how many well hit approach shots bounded over greens.

Could it be that at the Valspar they achieved the magical "firm and slow" meld?

Bob

''Could it be that at the Valspar they achieved the magical "firm and slow" meld?''

Bob,

   I wished I'd of known this was the case, I would have tuned in

[BCrosby]

Ben C. -


I was not expecting it (particularly at a PGA event), delighted when I saw it and surprised it has gotten so little notice here at GCA or elsewhere. 


Bob

[Kalen Braley]

I can't help but wonder....

If this were lefty,  Bubba,  Rory, and Scott chasing each other down the stretch like last week... instead of Jerry Seinfeld, A Talibanee, and some scrawny college kid... people would be whistling a different tune about the course.

I've said it before, but you could put the worlds top 10 on my local Doak 3 muni in a weekend tourney and it would still be must see TV!!

[John Kavanaugh]

I thought it was a compelling field. I have a personal interest in Ryan Moore and even asked my wife to watch that kid and Spieth. They don't look the same age. Love the beard, hate the player. Playoff, it had it all except an interesting venue.


I find chip fast, putt slow to be the most difficult golf. That was interesting.

[jeffwarne]

I find chip fast, putt slow to be the most difficult golf. That was interesting.

Now if we could just apply that to modern fairways. Hard bounce,less roll


Too crazy though-
1.would make for better design with canted fairways and sloped greens possible so driving angles might actually matter
2.and would cost less to maintain-(slower-firmer)
a man can dream....


maybe issue free thumpmeters so clubs could measure firmness, rather than roll
Measuring firmness seems appropriate given what really is being measured by most....