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Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2016, 04:01:01 AM »
I can't think of many great 3s over 200 yards, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be built.  Holes don't need to be great to add something to a course.  Below are probably most of the ones I have played...from the daily tees


#2 Sacred 9
#13 Addington
#9 St Andrews New
#12 University of Michigan
Calamity Corner Portrush
#7 New Zealand
#16 Montrose


Ciao
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 04:47:19 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

John Chilver-Stainer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2016, 04:08:26 AM »
For me the stand out long Par 3 is the 16th at Carnoustie with 248 yds.


Although downwind it plays much shorter thanks to the running fairway,
but into a headwind it's a monster

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2016, 04:18:32 AM »
Is it the yardage of the hole or is it the club the player has to hit given the distance the player usually hits the ball?

Up hill and down hill also a factor as is wind direction.

While there are some interesting longer par-3's, and a longer one on an occasional basis is for variety and challenge nice, does anyone truely like hitting driver (or even fairway metal, strong hybrid) to a par-3 on any kind of regular basis?

Here are some quite nice longer ones, exact yardages irrelevant -

16th at Montrose
16th at Carnoustie
15th at Cruden Bay
6th at Painswick
12th at Tenby
4th and 16th at Perranporth
17th at Dunfanaghy
Calamity at Royal Portrush

Atb
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 04:24:17 AM by Thomas Dai »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2016, 04:48:11 AM »
Atb


Good catch on 16 Montrose!


Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Eric Hammerbacher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2016, 05:21:41 AM »
#3 at Myopia
"All it takes, in truth, for a golfer to attain his happiness is a fence rail to throw his coat on, and a target somewhere over the rise." -John Updike 1994

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #30 on: March 11, 2016, 08:03:46 AM »
The 7th at Dormie is over 200 from the back ... very hard hole.  The use of the word "great" is always argumentative.
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #31 on: March 11, 2016, 08:19:08 AM »
Lot of interesting answers here but what does great really mean?

16th at CPC is spectacular but is it really great for a 24 handicapper hitting the ball 180 yards?


Someone who hits the ball 180 yards can never hit a green 200 yards away, unless the shot plays a lot shorter than the distance.  So it seems to me your point would rule out any 200+ yard par 3. 

But I disagree with that, too.  16 at CPC gives the short hitter a chance.  Don't go for the green.  Play a shot that is not too hard left and short, then have a short pitch to possibly make par.  24 handicappers don't hit many greens or make many pars in any case, but this hole gives them a fighting chance -- in one of the most beautiful, invigorating settings of all golf. 

Great in my book. 

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #32 on: March 11, 2016, 08:20:19 AM »
Well, some consider #8 at Oakmont no slouch. I guess it plays 296 yds from the back tees. A buddy of mine aced it last year with a 3 wood from that distance in a tournament.


I can offer no such claim to fame.


Also #8 at De Pan which plays like 210 or 220 is a great one. If you figure that for the big boys 200-220 can be a 6 iron perhaps that statement only seems true for the rest of us hackers.
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Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #33 on: March 11, 2016, 08:24:43 AM »
The 7th at Dormie is over 200 from the back ... very hard hole. 
Ditto for the 3rd at Ballyhack. They may not be "great", but still very good.  The use of the word "great" is always argumentative.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2016, 07:43:16 PM by Carl Rogers »
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #34 on: March 11, 2016, 08:49:20 AM »
My thought when regarding this question is that it doesn't matter.

Even if it's completely true, if every par 3 were under 200 it would be very boring.  Without long holes there is nothing to differentiate the short ones.

Michael Felton

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2016, 08:51:27 AM »
A couple I have seen mentioned and a couple I haven't. 5 at Pine Valley and 13 at the Addington I have seen mentioned.

11 at Walton Heath Old, 11 at RSG and 14 at Deal I haven't seen mentioned.


As to the question, the only difference between a 245 yard par 3 and a 255 yard par 4 is 10 yards and a number on a card. We all like (good) short par fours. If long par threes bother you, then play them like they're short 4s.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2016, 09:02:38 AM »
Good get on Myopia #3.


Also East Lake #18.


Bob

Chris Roselle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2016, 09:09:54 AM »


One of my favorites in Philly is the 8th at Aronimink GC which can play anywhere from 205 to 240.  And the downhill nature of the shot makes the hole great imo.

David Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2016, 09:36:07 AM »
Geez, just dawned on me. How about great par 3's that are the first holes and longer than 200 yds...


Royal Lytham
Berkshire
Walton Heath Old





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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2016, 09:44:41 AM »
The aforementioned #5  @ Pine Valley:


"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
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Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2016, 09:55:54 AM »
After finishing up his four rounds and collecting his pretty healthy check at Doral, Tour player Daniel Berger tweeted, "Why do golf course designers think 250 yard par 3s are good holes? The best part 3s in the world are the shortest. Ex. #7 at pebble beach"


Along with being reason #6,809,344 why it can be argued that Tour players are not grownups but are in fact cranky toddlers, it belies a lack of understanding that golf is about holing the ball as soon as possible, and that holes that provide formidable, varied and interesting obstacles to the achievement of that goal tend to be better than holes that do not. The hole that he was moaning about, #13 at the Blue Monster, is not one that I've played, but from having watched pros play it on TV, it's pretty clear that the green is probably both too heavily bunkered and too contoured to give players much of a shot at making a 2, even if they hit a virtuosic shot.


On a 250-yard hole, regardless of whether it's a par 3 or 4, scores from 2 to 4 or 5 should be in the mix. There are plenty of holes where this can happen.


Berger shouldn't be complaining anyway, since most of the time when the Tour plays a course that has a par 3 of 235+, they just move the tees up so that the widdle baby pros can hit yet another 6 iron, rather than a 4 iron, a hybrid or - HEAVEN FORBID!!! - a wood.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #41 on: March 11, 2016, 09:59:34 AM »
Most Biarritz holes would fit the bill.


I don't know how we left the 5th at PVGC for so late in the thread. Another good get.
 
Bob

Cob Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #42 on: March 11, 2016, 10:04:34 AM »
Winchester #11
Brae Burn #17
Essex #4
Orchards #7


Ross usually had a stout par 3 in his routings

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #43 on: March 11, 2016, 10:04:53 AM »
After finishing up his four rounds and collecting his pretty healthy check at Doral, Tour player Daniel Berger tweeted, "Why do golf course designers think 250 yard par 3s are good holes? The best part 3s in the world are the shortest. Ex. #7 at pebble beach"


Along with being reason #6,809,344 why it can be argued that Tour players are not grownups but are in fact cranky toddlers, it belies a lack of understanding that golf is about holing the ball as soon as possible, and that holes that provide formidable, varied and interesting obstacles to the achievement of that goal tend to be better than holes that do not. The hole that he was moaning about, #13 at the Blue Monster, is not one that I've played, but from having watched pros play it on TV, it's pretty clear that the green is probably both too heavily bunkered and too contoured to give players much of a shot at making a 2, even if they hit a virtuosic shot.


On a 250-yard hole, regardless of whether it's a par 3 or 4, scores from 2 to 4 or 5 should be in the mix. There are plenty of holes where this can happen.


Berger shouldn't be complaining anyway, since most of the time when the Tour plays a course that has a par 3 of 235+, they just move the tees up so that the widdle baby pros can hit yet another 6 iron, rather than a 4 iron, a hybrid or - HEAVEN FORBID!!! - a wood.


You really can't include PGA Tour players in any discussion of golf architecture.  They were hitting 3-irons onto that 250 yard par 3.  On 16 Justin Rose hit 3-wood over the 300 yard plus par 4, cutting the dogleg.  Those plays have little to do with golf in the real world. 

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #44 on: March 11, 2016, 10:05:41 AM »
Winchester #11
Brae Burn #17
Essex #4
Orchards #7


Ross usually had a stout par 3 in his routings


Another example is 11 or 12 at Mid Pines.

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #45 on: March 11, 2016, 10:06:37 AM »
I suppose it really comes down to whether you like long shot par 3's or not. Personally I do, mainly because I've generally got a better chance of hitting the green hitting a fairway wood/driver than I have a mid iron. Mind you, long par 3's these days really means anything over 190 yards for me. As time goes on, and I get shorter, I suspect all those mid length par 3's that I've been so so about will become my favourites. A happy thought to go into the weekend with.


Niall

Tim Gavrich

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #46 on: March 11, 2016, 10:13:23 AM »
Winchester #11
Brae Burn #17
Essex #4
Orchards #7


Ross usually had a stout par 3 in his routings


Another example is 11 or 12 at Mid Pines.


If we're talking about long Ross par threes, let me add #8 at Hartford GC, #14 at CC of Waterbury, #13 at Wampanoag and #12 at Sedgefield.


And I'll always love the 228-yard drop-shot (of 60 or 70 feet) 9th at Hop Meadow CC.
Senior Writer, GolfPass

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #47 on: March 11, 2016, 11:04:52 AM »
Can't believe the 3rd at Pasatiempo hasn't been mentioned yet.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #48 on: March 11, 2016, 11:52:33 AM »
While we are piling on, the 12th at Athens Country Club.


Bob

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: No great par-3 over 200 yards
« Reply #49 on: March 11, 2016, 12:17:14 PM »
Can't believe the 3rd at Pasatiempo hasn't been mentioned yet.


See reply #17, John Kirk.....


One of the great par 3s, or in many cases, short par 4s!