[David Davis]

Can anyone share any successful links course renovations including before and after photos?


I'm really interested to see something like the Birmingham post but for links courses, maybe even with mass tree removal and renovations of all the green complexes, even routing alterations.


Of course Turnberry when finished may fall under this category but I'm looking more for something dramatic and deemed successful. I can't think of any and could certainly use the resources if any of you know about them and have the story and before/after photos to back it up.


Even if you can point out old threads you remember would be great.


Thanks for your help.

[David_Tepper]

David -

You should contact Frank Pont. My guess is he has plenty of pics on that subject.

http://golfclubatlas.com/feature-interview/interviewpont/

http://infinitevarietygolf.com/

http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/index.html

DT

[Adam Lawrence]

Yes. Frank and Patrice's work at Le Touquet and Hardelot is the most obvious example I can think of.

[Joel_Stewart]

If we use the "Links Course" broadly and include courses by the water I suspect you could use NGLA.  This was more of a restoration.


In terms of a renovation, Mike Stranz did a good job at Monterey Peninsula CC.

[Sean_A]

David

Not many links get seriously altered..usually at most a hole or two and a few other green alterations.  In the not too distant past maybe Dooks or Royal Dublin may be what you are looking for?

Waterville, Rosapenna OTM & Skibo are some others.  I would think some pix should be available for these courses. If its trees you want to see actioned on a links I would think Skibo is THE place to check out. 


Ciao

[Thomas Dai]

David,


Would links courses put together again after being ravaged during WWI and WWII count in this regard? If so, and you mentioned Trumpberry, then Saunton* ought to appear on such a listing and what about the likes of Princes, Felixstowe Ferry, Dornoch? Must be quite a few more what with coastal defences, training areas, even airfields.


Atb


* there was a thread that touched on various changes a couple of months ago - see http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,51415.50.html - from post 66 onwards.

[David Davis]

Thanks for the answers guys!


David, good call there. Frank is a friend of mine and I'm really looking for courses outside of The Netherlands, so not Royal Hague or Kennemer both of which Frank has helped restore. I can't think of another links course he's done off hand so am really looking for UK, Ireland.


Adam, you got me there. Funny enough I really didn't think Le Touquet was a links but indeed that may indeed be a really good example. Thanks, I've not been there yet. That goes back to David's call as well and Frank's been on me to get me there.


Sean and Thomas, I'll look into a couple of those as well. Any before/after photo threads you can think of.


Joel, thanks. Been there and enjoyed the MPCC courses but have never seen the pre renovation pics. Naturally as you mention it's not a links but if they did some major tree removal I'd be interested. I'm really looking for renovations on true links land.

[Thomas Dai]

David,


The 'Britain from Above' website might be worth a look.


A poster herein, sorry I can't recall who, my apologies to him, has posted a few links on GCA to aerial photos of the UK that show courses before/after WWII. Perhaps the poster if reading this could highlight the relevant threads.


In the meantime perhaps this might give you something to go on -


http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/asearch?search=Golf


Pick an aerial photo that interests you and you should be able to zoom in, well at least I can on my tablet.


Atb

[Jim Sherma]

Probably not what you have in mind but:

Old Tom widening the old course followed by all of the bunker rebuilding and altering through the years. Colt redoing Old Tom's Muirfield routing, Prestwick going from the original 12 to 18, MacKenzie's work at Lahinch as well as Simpson's at Ballybunion. Actually gets tough to think of a great links course that hasn't had one or many successful revision(s). While GCA likes to think of architecture as a manna from heaven laid out by the chosen ones, links courses in particular appear to be more like continuous works in progress.

[Sean_A]

The Ryder Cup has gone the way of all events...over-hyped, over-analysed and over-reported.  Some people dig it more than others.  Just like coverage of every sport I watch...I am in double speed mode much of the time.  I rarely listen to golf commentators...they are often a waste of time and detract from the event. 


Ciao 

[Jon Wiggett]

The Ryder Cup has gone the way of all events...over-hyped, over-analysed and over-reported.  Some people dig it more than others.  Just like coverage of every sport I watch...I am in double speed mode much of the time.  I rarely listen to golf commentators...they are often a waste of time and detract from the event. 


Ciao

  Wrong thread maybe Sean

[Ed Tilley]

Re Dooks, I did a course tour last year below:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,61641.msg1464600.html#msg1464600

The pictures on golfarchitecturepictures.com of Dooks are pre restoration so if you compare the two you will get a good idea of the changes be it new holes (e.g. 4th), improvements (1st) or complete butchering of an iconic hole (13th).

[Adam Lawrence]

The renovation that is going on at Machrie at the moment is interesting. You might find it partially relevant; there isn't any clearing going on as there weren't any significant number of trees on the property in the first place. But the scale of the project is pretty remarkable, I don't think there's a hole being left untouched, and there are maybe six or seven basically all-new holes. I'll be writing it up in the April GCA, but as a sneak preview, what I though most interesting about it was the amount of brilliant feature in the dune system that was totally unused in the original course.


I still can't make my mind up whether I approve of such a dramatic reworking to a famous old course. But the work is good.

[Robin_Hiseman]

My colleague Gary Johnston here at EGD oversaw a pretty thorough renovation of Prince's.

[David_Tepper]

"I'm really interested to see something like the Birmingham post but for links courses, maybe even with mass tree removal and renovations of all the green complexes, even routing alterations."

David D. -

I don't think there have been many (if indeed, any) instances where "mass tree removal" has been an issue for any links renovation/alteration in GB&I. I can't think of any links (except for perhaps Formby) where there have been masses of trees to remove.

That being said, Royal Dornoch did cut down the only two trees on the course a few years ago.

DT 

[Martin Lehmann]

Thanks for the answers guys!


David, good call there. Frank is a friend of mine and I'm really looking for courses outside of The Netherlands, so not Royal Hague or Kennemer both of which Frank has helped restore. I can't think of another links course he's done off hand so am really looking for UK, Ireland.


Adam, you got me there. Funny enough I really didn't think Le Touquet was a links but indeed that may indeed be a really good example. Thanks, I've not been there yet. That goes back to David's call as well and Frank's been on me to get me there.


Sean and Thomas, I'll look into a couple of those as well. Any before/after photo threads you can think of.


Joel, thanks. Been there and enjoyed the MPCC courses but have never seen the pre renovation pics. Naturally as you mention it's not a links but if they did some major tree removal I'd be interested. I'm really looking for renovations on true links land.

Just for the record: renovation of De Kennemer is done by Hawtree.

[Jon Wiggett]

The renovation that is going on at Machrie at the moment is interesting. You might find it partially relevant; there isn't any clearing going on as there weren't any significant number of trees on the property in the first place. But the scale of the project is pretty remarkable, I don't think there's a hole being left untouched, and there are maybe six or seven basically all-new holes. I'll be writing it up in the April GCA, but as a sneak preview, what I though most interesting about it was the amount of brilliant feature in the dune system that was totally unused in the original course.


I still can't make my mind up whether I approve of such a dramatic reworking to a famous old course. But the work is good.

Adam,

as a good deal of the best parts of the course have long since being lost I do not think the alteration of the course at Machrie to be a negative thing. This is despite being a really big fan of the course after spending 5 days in January 1992 being the only golfer on the course all day, the only guest in the 'hotel' and almost the only customer in the hotel bar on an evening. It was a brilliant experience that will stay with me all my life.

Having said that, if the course is rebuilt to create a better course and thus improve the viability of the place then all the better. The only thing I would ask is is it really a renovation or rather a rebuild?

Jon

[Rich Goodale]

From 1921 to 1939 or so, Dornoch was played as follows (and was called by JH Taylor as ("the finest course in Scotland"):


1st 5:  Current 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
next 7: Current 6th tee to current 11th green, Current 12, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 
final 6:  current Struie 1, 3(NLE), 4, 16, 17 18 (NLE)


Sometime in WWII the Struie holes 3 (NLE), 4 and 16 were taken over by the RAF and the current 13th hole was added to the Championship course, making it a 16 hole course for the duration of the War


In 1946 the 6th was rebuilt using the old 6th tee to the (new) current 6th green, and adding the Current 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, and 11th (to the old 6th green).  The WWII 13th was retained to make the course as it is today.  The old 18th (a great uphill 210 yard hole from Littletown to the current putting green) was made NLE in the late 80's.


As one who has had the opportunity to play all the old holes (including those which are now NLE) in the 1980's, I can envisage the pre-1939 layout personally, and strongly think that the renovations to this great course were a significant improvement.

[Mike_Trenham]

The way I understand it Port Salon could be a prime example.

[Rich Goodale]

I've played the current Portsalon several times and love it, but I'm not sure that it is better or worse than what it was before Ruddy got there.  Anybody know?

[Niall C]

David

Glasgow Gailes has been going through a modest renovation over the last few years and the process is continuing. Like Carnoustie, Gailes is one of those links that has had clumps of fir trees planted in pockets here and there round the course. And like Carnoustie they have taken out a number of those trees, particularly around greens and tees. This is not just for agronomy reasons but also to give the course more of a links feel.

An even more dramatic change has been the removal of gorse on a number of holes with the focus on the par 3's. Before each of the par 3's had a sea of gorse between tee and green to the extent that it had to be trimmed down just to see the top of the flag. The changes in this respect have been quite dramatic and meeting with total approval from the membership. When I say total, what I mean is I've yet to hear anyone say a bad word against the changes.

As yet there has been no real changes to the design or routing although Hawtree who has been advising, did suggest moving the first fairway slightly to the left for safety reasons however that has yet to be acted on. Unfortunately I don't have loads of before and afters photos but have some that I could send.

Niall

[Thomas Dai]

Quite a few links courses have removed areas of scrub, thickets, gorse etc. I believe Royal Birkdale removed masses at one time prior to an Open. Such areas tend to be places for rabbits to house themselves and rabbits are not usually seen as desirable residents on golf courses. Even links courses need the occasional haircut.
Atb

[David Davis]

Just for the record: renovation of De Kennemer is done by Hawtree.

Hi Martin,


I beg to differ on this. Frank Pont was their consulting architect from 2004 to 2012. One of the major victories of his time there IMO was the creation of a master plan for the course which has spearheaded the tree and bush removal and the returning of the conditioning of the Kennemer. Credit where credit is due. He might of done a lot more too as I don't know all of what was done.


Hawtree came on and followed this master plan.


Hawtree was the consulting architect that completely messed up the 5th and 7th greens at De Pan however. Luckily for the golf world 7 has now been fixed and 5 will hopefully soon follow.


No I'm not much of a fan of the work he's done that I've seen so far but I've not been to Trump Aberdeen yet.

[Josh Stevens]

Is it actually possible to renovate a links, as much of the process is trying to put back the original old natural undulations that made no sense and are very hard if not impossible to actually reproduce.

If a martian landed on earth and looked at two links courses - one old untouched track like say Rye and one modern Links like Trump - I am sure they could tell the old from the new simply by the lack of absurdity on the new (perhaps Trump wasn't the best choice there)

[Adam Lawrence]

Is it actually possible to renovate a links, as much of the process is trying to put back the original old natural undulations that made no sense and are very hard if not impossible to actually reproduce.

If a martian landed on earth and looked at two links courses - one old untouched track like say Rye and one modern Links like Trump - I am sure they could tell the old from the new simply by the lack of absurdity on the new (perhaps Trump wasn't the best choice there)

Rye is old, but it's in no way untouched. It has been changed many, many times over the years -- there isn't a great deal of Colt/Rolland's original course left now

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()