[Michael Felton]

Michael,

If I saw a green with a wicked nasty steep grass face on one side...in my mind I would use just as much caution if it were a water hazard.

Like for example, I think its 16 on PGA West that has that nasty deep bunker on the left side of the green.  I would be just as hesitant to get anywhere near that as if it were a water hazard.  Ditto for the road hole bunker on TOC.

That's fair, but in both of those cases you still have something that you can do. You can play towards the flag. It may not be easy (might be horrendously difficult) and that's fine, but I don't like the idea of having nothing. As I think about it though, maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong point of view. Thinking of it as "well, you shouldn't have hit it there should you" does make it feel more reasonable.


Quick tale I just remembered - a friend of mine who is a member at RSG told me that the last time the Open was there he was watching Thomas Levet play the 8th hole. Levet had hit his approach short and right of the front right greenside bunker. The hole was cut quite tight on the other side of the bunker. Levet's ball was on a slight downslope on a tight lie. My friend, who is a pretty good player looked at this spot Levet was in and thought to himself he has nothing he can do here. Can't go at the flag. Levet showed him otherwise and left himself a tap-in for his par. He hit a chip - a regular chip shot - into the bank at the top of the bunker. The ball hit the bank, which killed it and the ball popped up and rolled down the slope in front of the bunker onto the green about a foot from the hole. My friend said he'd never even thought of playing that shot and it was pretty high risk. If he'd missed it 6 inches short he'd be in the bunker and a foot long and the ball is chasing along the green. Maybe there's always something that a top level player can do from that spot at Rye.

[Jon Wiggett]

I found on one hole (believe it was the 14th), I was a mere 5 feet off the left side of the green, but had gone down into a swale. It was a virtually impossibility to get up and down because I couldn't putt (sleeper eyebrow), but there was a slope behind my ball that made any shot but a bump and run (again protected by sleeper) non-existent. It was sublime. People talk about knowing where to miss at Augusta, but I would say the same was true at Rye. I learned the hard way where not to miss

So you missed the green by 5 feet and you had no shot you could play? That strikes me as a little much. I have no problem with it being very difficult, but there should be something you can do.

Michael,

So any green that has a water hazard within 5 feet of it are no good?  I guess you think ANGC #13 is chopped liver then!!   

I think in my mind, there is a difference between a water hazard, which you know is there and the penalty is clear versus an area of grass that I assume has a tendency to put a ball in a virtually unplayable position.

Michael,

I do not believe there was anything UNPLAYABLE about the shot just that it was very difficult to play directly towards the flag with any hope of success.

Jon

[Kalen Braley]

Michael,

That sounds fair, I think that's a pretty good explanation.

I also put extreme short-siding in this kind of category as well, like being in the thick rough above the hole,  where the pin is 5 paces on,  and all you have between you and the hole is a slick downhill green.  So in these situations I try to use the same caution in not getting in those brutal spots.

P.S. And given your example of Rye and Thomas Levet, I too am amazed at the kind of shots they can hit to recover in impossible situations...

[Rhydian Lewis]

Cape bunker at Royal North Devon (Westward Ho!) no longer has sand across the entire width of the face. It is not revetted (Sleepers) but is a huge behemoth of a bunker that now has a grass base for around 50% of the width of the face (maybe less than 50% but a good proportion).

If a drive ends up within 10ft or so of the face then most golfers would have no option other than to play out sideways or backwards. The problem I have with this particular bunker is that the golfer HAS to hit over it. I've been a low single digit player most of my life and found it quite intimidating (though really enjoyable) to launch one over it. However for a mid to high handicapper..... maybe the choice is 8 iron lay up, wedge over the top? Not sure that works for me though. The thrill of taking on a hazard like this or trying to carry water etc is surely what mot golfers enjoy, if I think I can make the shot and I'm not playig tournament golf, I'm taking it on. If I fail then I accept the penalty. I think the same can be said of a known revetted face or high grass bank. If I'm playing for a pin and know about the risk it heightens my enjoyment. If I have to play backwards that's the risk I take, if I opt for safety and protect my score I may put together a better score but i won't have gotten the thrill of 'taking it on', for me that's the golfers choice.

Not sure Cape Bunker give the golfer too much choice.

Incidentally the reason the club decided to remove the sand was based on cost and maintenance, likewise other sleeper faces and natural revetted faces are being replaced by synthetic revetment for the same reasons. This synthetic revetment is also now begining to be used for retaining walls as suggested earlier in the discussion. Synthetic revetted bunkers with no sand....that would fuel some debate!!

[Thomas Dai]

Synthetic revetted bunkers with no sand....that would fuel some debate!!

Interesting that you should mention this Rhydian, as it was something I did wonder about mentioning in my initial post.


Also interesting that you should mention the cost of maintaining the sandy parts of the famous RND/Westward Ho! Cape bunker as a resaon for switching to grass.


Over the years I've seen all sorts of materials used for bunker faces, sleepers obviously, but also things like slightly angled vertical corrugated iron sheets! Indeed a friend once made a practice bunker from a secondhand sand filled moulded fishpond with a few holes drilled in the base to let the rainwater out and angled wooden pallets as a face. Heath Robinson maybe, but it worked and it was cheap to build!


Atb

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