[Brad Treadwell]

Which golf broadcasters do the best job discussing GCA on air?  Secondly, which ones that currently don't could really "move the needle" if they did?

[Kalen Braley]

Johnny Miller probably thinks hes' the best..just ask him!!   


But I think Faldo has some of the best commentary in this area...

[BHoover]

Hard to fit much golf architecture discussion, let alone tournament coverage, in between the commercial breaks and other features (such as Faldo showing his fitness routine).

Is there a better option for those of us who actually hope to watch the tournament? This is just ridiculous.

[Nigel Islam]

Ian Baker Finch drops the terms a fair amount. I think actually Peter Kostis probably seems to understand it the best. CBS does a much better job of incorporating it than NBC, but I think NBC has superior camera work to show features.

[Mike_Young]

It's just one of those subjects that the average viewer cares nothing about.  It does not move the needle whenever they try it.  So most  TV talent never discusses it.

[Kalen Braley]

It's just one of those subjects that the average viewer cares nothing about.  It does not move the needle whenever they try it.  So most  TV talent never discusses it.

Can't agree more Mike.

99% of golfer/viewers just don't give a rats azz.  Its just reality.

Just keeping showing the ocean shots, or little kids eating an ice cream cone....

[K Rafkin]

Ian Baker Finch drops the terms a fair amount. I think actually Peter Kostis probably seems to understand it the best. CBS does a much better job of incorporating it than NBC, but I think NBC has superior camera work to show features.

At one point in the broadcast a player hit a bad shot and was out of position on the 10th green.  When the player was forced to putt off the fringe and on the over the lip of a bunker Ian Baker Finch said something along the lines of "they really need to lower the lip of that bunker" in the most serious of tones.


Perhaps Mr. Finch also believes that the 1/18th fairway of the old course should also be widened.  You know....for fairness.

[Brad Treadwell]

I did also hear Kostis mention on the Saturday broadcast that the 10th needs to be renovated....referenced the recent work on the 17th at Pebble.  IBF does seem to make as good an effort as anyone. 

[Mark Kiely]

Along these lines, I noticed the little hole diagrams CBS is using this season and wondered if other GCA members took note. I saw it as sort of a nod to our interests without really being intrusive for the casual viewer.

[BCrosby]

I did also hear Kostis mention on the Saturday broadcast that the 10th needs to be renovated....referenced the recent work on the 17th at Pebble.   

What did Peter "people are hitting it longer because architects are building longer courses" Kostis say about changing the 10th?


Bob

[BHoover]

Not sure what Kostis said on Saturday, but I recall in past years he's said that the 10th green should be softened to accommodate tournament green speeds.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Kostis can and should express opinions on #10 at Riviera.  It is a great hole about which to debate things.  If on the air I would simply state that most players don't know how to play the hole.  The lay-up off the tee should not be directed at the hole but far to the left.  A 90-100 yard shot would remain and it is an easy shot for the tour pros.  They just cannot fathom that having a 90 yard shot left on a 300 yard hole is proper and best.


But yesterday Ian Baker Finch called the green at 15 "Thomas' version of a biarritz."  I have played, read about, and studied Riviera for close to 50 years and that was the first time I have heard that.  Can a biarritz be turned perpendicular to the fairway and still be called a biarritz?  15 is still to me one of the greens in the world that should be studied and utilized more.

[Steve Lapper]

Although he's with Fox, and as such rarely heard from, Brad Faxon is unquestionably the golf announcer with the highest GCA acumen. Fax "gets it" and knows how to translate it into common, understandable sense for the average Joe-Sixpack viewer. 


Yesterday it was either Kostis or IBF who suggested lowering the lip of the left side (fairway) bunker on #10. He was describing this after Chaz Reavie landed in it and left his sand shot short along the front side of the green with a strip of kikuyu collar on his putting line to the pin. Having played #10 multiple times and having been in that bunker on occasion, I can't remember thinking the lip was th problem. I suspect it's ultimately about the majority of the pros remaining unable, or unwilling to figure out where NOT to put their drives!


Announcers, regardless of whom, are mere cogs in the money wheel of the pro tour. They will near always believe some subtle feature of the golf course that impedes the princely-paid player is the problem, not the striker's mental capacity.



The guy who could really "move the needle" if he wanted to would be Jim Nance. Nance actually understands a reasonable amount of GCA, but only rarely delves into it. I once asked him on the WF patio why that was and his answer was simple: "The players are the story on any TV broadcast." I suspect that's the company line, but he didn't deliver it without his decent and silky-smooth sincerity.

[Kalen Braley]

Steve,

As much as I hate to say it, Jim Nantz is exactly right.

 IMO, most viewers tune in to golf for the same reason as any other pro sport....to see ridiculously talented/expertly endowed athletes do incredible things in the field of play.  How many times has Tiger or Bubba or whoever hit some ridiculous drive or recovery shot in crunch time.  This is what the masses want to see.  And conversely its also why when the big names don't show up, the ratings plummet..

So I don't blame the networks for failing to discuss GCA....

[BHoover]

I used to watch golf religiously, especially during the winter months. But I have increasingly come to believe that without the miracle of DVR, golf broadcasts are damn near unwatchable. The constant barrage of commercials, corporate shilling, and special interest features that focus on anything but the golf being played are tough to take. I now DVR every tournament I want to watch so I can avoid all that. But even then, the networks show so little actual golf (with the exception of putting), that it makes me want to pull my hair out each weekend...until spring arrives and I can just go play golf instead of having to rely on the networks to get my fix.

It's not just golf of course; the NFL is just as unwatchable in my opinion. The NBA and NHL are somewhat better. Baseball is the only sport I can watch without DVR because I know when the commercials are going to come, at the end of each half inning. But for the most part, televised sports are terrible because of the focus on everything but the game.

[Thomas Dai]

TV golf is, I would suggest, theatre........entertainment, comedy etc. Theatre though is not real life, and TV golf is not real life pay-n-play or members golf.


Atb

[BCowan]

I used to watch golf religiously, especially during the winter months. But I have increasingly come to believe that without the miracle of DVR, golf broadcasts are damn near unwatchable. The constant barrage of commercials, corporate shilling, and special interest features that focus on anything but the golf being played are tough to take. I now DVR every tournament I want to watch so I can avoid all that. But even then, the networks show so little actual golf (with the exception of putting), that it makes me want to pull my hair out each weekend...until spring arrives and I can just go play golf instead of having to rely on the networks to get my fix.

It's not just golf of course; the NFL is just as unwatchable in my opinion. The NBA and NHL are somewhat better. Baseball is the only sport I can watch without DVR because I know when the commercials are going to come, at the end of each half inning. But for the most part, televised sports are terrible because of the focus on everything but the game.

I agree completely.  I don't watch golf anymore for the most part.  I think it's time for me to take up Ice fishing next winter 

[Kalen Braley]

Brian,

I know ur tore up about it....but you do realize there would be zero golf on TV it if it weren't for commercials and someone trying to sell you something.  Just the reality of the situation and its always been this way with the exception of the Masters coverage...

P.S.  Funny you mention baseball...as that is the one sport I absolutely won't watch on TV due to the snails pace of the game.....although I do watch playoff baseball for the drama! 

[BHoover]

Brian,

I know ur tore up about it....but you do realize there would be zero golf on TV it if it weren't for commercials and someone trying to sell you something.  Just the reality of the situation and its always been this way with the exception of the Masters coverage...

P.S.  Funny you mention baseball...as that is the one sport I absolutely won't watch on TV due to the snails pace of the game.....although I do watch playoff baseball for the drama! 

Yes, I am well aware of the fact that commercials are the lifeblood of sports broadcasts. But it doesn't mean I want to watch them. That's why I am so thankful each weekend for the invention of the DVR.

[David_Tepper]

Interesting blog on televised golf:

http://nolayingup.com/2016/02/21/eye-on-cbs-an-intervention/

[Tim_Cronin]

Even broadcasts where one might think architecture would be, if not the focus, at least worth a passing glance, go in the other direction. The 2005 Walker Cup at Chicago Golf Club is one example. Iconic course. Coverage on Golf Channel to satisfy the USGA contract. Guaranteed small audience of amateur golf wonks, many of whom are interested in GCA. Amount of coverage devoted to GCA? None.


The hole maps occasionally seen on CBS are a plus. The addition of Dottie Pepper is a plus. The missing half-hour between GC and CBS coverage – supposedly a union thing – is a minus. Guarantees that we never see 5-6-7 at Pebble Beach. And Saturday at Pebble Beach is best watched with the mute button on.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I used to watch golf religiously, .

Me, too, as in shouting "Oh J....s C....t" at most of the announcers.

[Matt Wharton]

Gentlemen,


I was introduced to this grand game we all love by my late grandfather.  We would watch televised professional golf nearly every weekend and I recall fondly the good old days of CBS with Pat Summerall, Ken Venturi and numerous golf shots on the air.  You could even watch players not in contention so we, the viewer, could get a feel for what the leaders would soon face.  I even think early on Jim Nantz was very good but like many others in the public eye (or ear) his ego is now bigger than the booth his body occupies.


Today's televised golf has become a story about only those competitors with a realistic chance of winning.  It is not uncommon for a player participating in one of the final three groups to never be seen if they are having one of those days going the wrong direction.  When the cameras are only focused on about four players that leaves plenty of time for networks to fill advertising obligations.  The sad thing is I believe ratings are typically higher when the tour visits a more classic course, probably a result of a stronger field with star power intrigued by the course and its history.  Seems like a perfect opportunity to focus on GCA.


Just saying,

[Jason Thurman]

My insomnia has been well controlled for a few years now, so I don't watch televised golf very often. When I do, though, I find no shortage of blithering about architecture coming from the booth. Commentators constantly talk about features that they'd like to see tweaked or softened, as I'm told became a topic of discussion at Riviera this week. They herald courses that have installed SubAir systems. They love to point out courses that have done a great job adding length that "has again made this hole a great test where a few years ago it had been a bit too short for the modern game." And no one is more vigilant about pointing out when a hole has become "unfair" than the guys in the booth at a Tour event.


As much as it sounds like a blast to live in a world where everyone talks architecture all the time, the reality is that most people who discuss architecture will not discuss it from the perspective of the cognoscenti. There is no shortage of architectural discussion on PGA Tour broadcasts. There is merely a shortage of people who discuss that architecture from a perspective acceptable to the guys who hang out on websites like this.

[Joe Hancock]

Based on several observations listed above, it appears that not all discussion of golf architecture is beneficial.

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