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Mike_Clayton

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2016, 03:30:24 AM »
Josh,


Good point - I am constantly amazed at the land Perth locals take for granted.It runs all the way along the coast road heading north out of the city. More amazingly they are blowing up the dunes and beautiful indigenous vegetation and building houses estates. And they say golf is bad for the environment.

Josh Stevens

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2016, 05:26:45 AM »
Well the Bogans like an ocean view.  "Bogan" is "Chav" in UK english, not sure about American.

To be fair however, if you look at the sandy terrain in the city proper, or the older part of town that was inhabited when the old courses were built in the 20s, yes it was sandy, but not easy terrain.

We have a N-S coastline, and the first 100-200m of that is amazing rumpled links land similar to Sandwich, but by and large it has been preserved in its natural state, and that is a good thing environmentally, bad for golf.

 Then about 1-2km inland  there are two roughly parallel mega dunes about 50-80m high and 500m wide that run for 100km N-S.    Cottesloe is built on the seaward side of the first dune and is a tricky site as the terrain is extreme and quite tight and so the course is fiddly and Claustrophobic as it tries to fit into little dune corridors.  On the other hand a bit further north, Karrinyup is built on the top the first dune, falling down the leeward side  and so in effect is  somewhat like ANGC in being built on the side of a bloody great hill.

then once over the second dune, it flattens out and its just pretty dull for 30km until you hit the escarpment.

So while yes its sandy, in the older parts of town, the terrain is either tricky, or flat, and there isn't much of that nice middle level undulating terrain you see at Blackrock.

You are however, quite correct, if you go north of the city, its amazing land similar to the National in Vic, but there simply isn't the money to consider golf up there alas.

At the end of the day, it seems most great old golf was luck - that fluky confluence of great land being available at just the right moment in time when the finances and the intent came together.  The Melbourne Sand belt hit it on the nose, but Perth sort of missed it.

Colin Macqueen

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2016, 06:41:43 AM »
Josh,


I have never seen such land "fit for golf" as I meandered 200 kilometres north of Perth  towards Cervantes via Lancelin.


Small dunes to large dunes marching along,  turf dry, crisp and free running and so much steady, fairly strong winds!   Golfing heaven other than the fact that it becomes too far from any decent population to make golf courses financially viable.  But 'tis a dreamer's paradise.


I concur…it would have been very interesting to have heard what MacKenzie would have said about that land stretching as far as the eye could see. There are some wonderful tiny courses where you play and pay via an honour box …10-15 dollars a round tops.  Simply amazing!


Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Josh Stevens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2016, 07:28:13 AM »
No money

Australians simply wont pay the prices America pays.
Barnbougle Dunes is US$80 a round.
The most expensive and exclusive club (Royal Melbourne) in the country is possibly US$15,00 nomination and US$3000 a year

Cervantes has a population of 1000 on a good day and people just go there to fish and swim.  You could build Cypress Point up there but if you charged more than $30 a round no body would bother.

Remote, high quality golf doesn't work as well here as in the US because the high quality metropolitan golf is actually accessible to the common man and is 1/50th the cost of the US.

Mike_Clayton

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2016, 07:36:32 AM »
Josh


Thanks - it makes a lot of sense. It'd have been interesting to see what MacKenzie would have made of Mt Lawley and Cottosloe. Lawley is as good a site as most of the land of the sandbelt and Cottosloe could have been a tremendous course. Introducing trees (which i assume they did in significant numbers) seems to have been a mistake. I assume that site had very few big eucalypts on it in the 1920s

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #30 on: March 04, 2016, 10:37:05 AM »
James,


It's interesting to caddy this week and think 'our' way around the course. It seems really interesting to me and you have to hit well shaped and flighted irons into the greens.


It seems the members thought we made it 'too easy' and I can see why the unaware would think that.It is quite wide from the tee but it's a much harder course if you drive poorly.
It's also a pity Norman moved the bunker at 13.It looks nothing like what we would have done and it was perfectly fine where it was. Of course Su Oh (my boss this week) didn't help by plugging her drive right under the face and cementing my dislike for it.




WHAT!!!!!


The great white fish finger did something he shouldn't have...I can't believe that😏
Has he ever done anything in the world of architecture that anybody with a taste for tradition likes ?

Thomas Dai

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #31 on: March 04, 2016, 01:15:31 PM »
Josh
Thanks - it makes a lot of sense. It'd have been interesting to see what MacKenzie would have made of Mt Lawley and Cottosloe. Lawley is as good a site as most of the land of the sandbelt and Cottosloe could have been a tremendous course. Introducing trees (which i assume they did in significant numbers) seems to have been a mistake. I assume that site had very few big eucalypts on it in the 1920s


I understand it's very dry in the area with little fresh water coming from either the sky or from the ground so would the more rural courses stretching further on up the coastline have grass greens or would some of them have oil and sand mixture putting surfaces with maybe folks carrying a small section of astro-turf to hit shots from?


Atb
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 01:29:40 PM by Thomas Dai »

Mike_Clayton

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #32 on: March 04, 2016, 01:19:32 PM »
Mike


Bob Harrison was responsible for a lot of good work in Australia under Greg's name.

Josh Stevens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #33 on: March 04, 2016, 06:41:46 PM »
Josh
Thanks - it makes a lot of sense. It'd have been interesting to see what MacKenzie would have made of Mt Lawley and Cottosloe. Lawley is as good a site as most of the land of the sandbelt and Cottosloe could have been a tremendous course. Introducing trees (which i assume they did in significant numbers) seems to have been a mistake. I assume that site had very few big eucalypts on it in the 1920s


I understand it's very dry in the area with little fresh water coming from either the sky or from the ground so would the more rural courses stretching further on up the coastline have grass greens or would some of them have oil and sand mixture putting surfaces with maybe folks carrying a small section of astro-turf to hit shots from?


Atb

Water is increasingly an issue.  Being sand, there is of course ground water supplies but these can no longer be sprayed about with abandon.

Yes, north of perth, you will struggle to irrigate.  Perth itself is under pressure.  Cottesloe has had its allocation reduced and so has stopped irrigating the first 50m in front of most tees which makes sense - if you cant carry it 50m then perhaps you are playing the wrong game.

Personally I would like to see all Perth golf courses do the same, only water the playing surfaces and leave the rest to return to natural sand.  Would look amazing.  Karrinyup is ridiculous in the amount of useless grass it grows about the place, it could and should reduce its water usage by 30%

James Bennett

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #34 on: March 05, 2016, 04:28:27 AM »
Josh

Royal Adelaide uses half-turn irrigation on the edge of fairways - the rough doesn't get watered, nor does the area between tee and fairway.

Valley Club of Monteceito seems to be moving to a similar style - certainly the rough isn't irrigated now.  Not sure how much is irrigated between tee and fairway though.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Lukas Michel

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass" New
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2016, 07:54:06 AM »
Colin,


There's a little track of the kind you speak of called Lancelin Golf Club. Incredible land and a surprisingly good routing. A shame no-one has put money into it - it could be crazy good. Thomas is correct in assuming the "greens" are a sand mixture probably due to lack of water.


A couple photos when I played it last June.








And a few aerials I found online.



« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 05:23:45 PM by Lukas Michel »

Thomas Dai

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Re: Mike Clayton "The Lure of Short Grass"
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2016, 10:44:29 AM »
Lukas,


Splendid photos etc. What's at Lancelin looks pretty good now. Imagine what would be possible with just a few more Aussie-$.


Here's where it is in Satmap form -  https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-31.0470657,115.3506238,15z/data=!3m1!1e3 - then expand the map and check out the rest of the coastline from say east of Albany to north of Geraldton. Amazing potential. Money and water please.


Atb

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