The 'Failure' of Greens

[Jon Wiggett]

Alan,

A very good post which sets out its points clearly. Good to read, thanks.

I would have to disagree with you on the first point as to why USGA spec fails in the UK. The vast, vast majority of UK greenkeepers I have spoken to understand the basics very well. However, point two is the relevant and only important one and that is it is not is not suited to the UK climate.

Jeff,

I do not know about USGA greens being droughty indeed the idea of a perched water table is that it retains water until the pressure is so great that water is effectively pushed out by the weight of the water column. The problem with this in a moderate climate such as the UK is you end up with your grass roots sitting in water all the time which leads to all sorts of problems. In the UK you want the top few inches to dry very quickly and for the roots to have to delve deep to find moisture in the lower rootzone.


Jon

[Jeff_Brauer]

Jon,

Was specifically referring to instances when a super has had push up greens, and is new to maintaining sand based greens, which do require more water in maturation.  I have seen some under watering mistakes early, and if matched with hot weather, seen brand new greens struggle and fail.  But, maybe twice in 30+ years, so again, superintendent error is very rare, and this is a special situation.

[Jon Wiggett]

Sorry Jeff, yes I can see that especially in the establishment phase this can be a problem.

Jon

[Adrian_Stiff]

I have building greens for 35 years. Pretty much always with USGA conforming rootzone. The only problems I have experienced is in recent times and that is with moss.


Our climate is not the problem in my opinion, we have a good climate for golf and growing grass, strong sandy mediums or USGA are not far apart, the important component is the rootzone.


Our climate has the inability to retain bentgrass due to too many days of uncompetitive temperature where it can be stronger than poa annua. Days above 60F are maybe 60/365 and that is in the south, days above 60F in Southern Spain are 320/365 and Agrostis will out-compete the poa. I think if you don't play in the winter in the UK you could keep it, it seems to work in Canada where snow blanket closes the golf.


Fescue won't work unless you mow high and have low intensity of play. The UK is pretty much doomed to a mixture of grasses dominated by poa.

[Alan FitzGerald CGCS MG]

Alan,

A very good post which sets out its points clearly. Good to read, thanks.

I would have to disagree with you on the first point as to why USGA spec fails in the UK. The vast, vast majority of UK greenkeepers I have spoken to understand the basics very well. However, point two is the relevant and only important one and that is it is not is not suited to the UK climate.

Jeff,

I do not know about USGA greens being droughty indeed the idea of a perched water table is that it retains water until the pressure is so great that water is effectively pushed out by the weight of the water column. The problem with this in a moderate climate such as the UK is you end up with your grass roots sitting in water all the time which leads to all sorts of problems. In the UK you want the top few inches to dry very quickly and for the roots to have to delve deep to find moisture in the lower rootzone.


Jon

Jon


Agreed, I probably should have been a bit clearer. I was going back 20 + years to when they first started to appear in the UK/Ireland, when the knowledge base wasn't what it is now.


Saying that, on both sides of the Atlantic I feel there still is a bit of misunderstanding/apprehension on flushing. I know I've been guilty of the latter at times. After a period of precip not heavy enough to flush the green, it's hard turn the irrigation on to add more water to reset the system to ultimately dry it down.

[Jon Wiggett]

I have building greens for 35 years. Pretty much always with USGA conforming rootzone. The only problems I have experienced is in recent times and that is with moss.


Our climate is not the problem in my opinion, we have a good climate for golf and growing grass, strong sandy mediums or USGA are not far apart, the important component is the rootzone.


Our climate has the inability to retain bentgrass due to too many days of uncompetitive temperature where it can be stronger than poa annua. Days above 60F are maybe 60/365 and that is in the south, days above 60F in Southern Spain are 320/365 and Agrostis will out-compete the poa. I think if you don't play in the winter in the UK you could keep it, it seems to work in Canada where snow blanket closes the golf.


Fescue won't work unless you mow high and have low intensity of play. The UK is pretty much doomed to a mixture of grasses dominated by poa.

Adrian,

I partly agree in as much the percolation rates are important but the rest is not so. Using peat for the organic medium is not only irresponsible but also stupid as if it ever does dry out then it becomes virtually useless. Better to use local soils in the mix.

As for the grass sorts I believe in a mixed sward of fescue, bent (brown top) and the inevitable poa. Each has a place in the sward and a use. On the point of moss, it is only really a problem if it is to dominant but a certain amount is certainly not a bad thing.

Jon