[Duncan Cheslett]

Has any decent/proper/well respected full length grass 18-hole course in the modern era ever used artificial mats on every tee on every hole on a day-by-day basis?


If not, given how the quality of artificial mats has improved over the years do folks consider it likely to happen sometime soon?


Atb

I had exactly the same thought.

We recently installed half a dozen very high quality mats as winter tees on selected holes and they've been a great success. They are completely level and stable, take a tee peg  well, and provide great grip for the feet.

I'm struggling to think of a good reason why tee mats couldn't be used all year round.

[BCowan]

Below is a tee at Diamond Springs.  Blends nicely and looks like fairway, with little elevation.

[Andrew Carr]

Ben,


That looks amazing!  Is this something that is trending now or am I just noticing it in more places?  Did the 2013 Women's Open at Sebonack bring this tee presentation more to the forefront?

[Thomas Dai]

Has any decent/proper/well respected full length grass 18-hole course in the modern era ever used artificial mats on every tee on every hole on a day-by-day basis?
If not, given how the quality of artificial mats has improved over the years do folks consider it likely to happen sometime soon?
Atb

I had exactly the same thought.
We recently installed half a dozen very high quality mats as winter tees on selected holes and they've been a great success. They are completely level and stable, take a tee peg  well, and provide great grip for the feet.
I'm struggling to think of a good reason why tee mats couldn't be used all year round.

A course I play reasonably often has high quality, I think they may be Huxley's, on the majority of holes, not just par-3's, par-4's and par-5's as well. Just like the one's Duncan describes above, they are excellent.


The club only use them in the winter but, and this is I think quite sensable, they are positioned towards the rear of the summer tees so in the winter the men are still playing a full length course rather than a much shorter length which is the usual at most clubs in the winter (as winter mats are normally positioned way in front of the summer tees). As there are not that many ladies the ladies don't play off mats in winter.


The mats really are very good. Although others might object I wouldn't really have a problem playing from them all year round.


Atb

[BCowan]

Ben,


That looks amazing!  Is this something that is trending now or am I just noticing it in more places?  Did the 2013 Women's Open at Sebonack bring this tee presentation more to the forefront?

Andrew,

  I don't know.  Diamond Springs I believe opened in 2002.  I believe (not certain) that they mow fairways and tees with gang mowers.  The fairways are 50-60 yard wide at points.  There really isn't any rough.  I can't say I have noticed it much at all, especially in Michigan.  Maybe Joe Hancock can chime in.  I really loved the course.  Favorite DeVries in the greater Grand Rapids area. 

[Sean_A]

Give mats a few years before you judge their quality. Me?  I hate mats because they force one to play a sweeping shot...hence the reason they are used on par 3s very often.  If they aren't brushed out quite often clubs get stuck in the nap and make it far easier to hit balls fat.  Give me real grass any day of the week and I don't mind if it is fairway height. 


Ciao

[Dave McCollum]

I’m not here all that often, but do enjoy Mike’s threads/thinking.  I started out here trying to learn something about design in case I had to renovate our course, and while doing that, make it really good.  One of the first responses was from Mike, essentially saying it wasn’t a wise investment.  Over the years, I’ve learned he knows his stuff and is a voice we should listen to.  I spoke to my Super today about his premise today.  Our pros and golfers will hate the theoretical premise of this thread, but if we did it, most wouldn’t notice.  What the discussion did bring up, however, is how badly our elevated tees are designed from a maintenance perspective (and to mow with a fw mower).  We should rebuild a bunch of them to make them easier and cheaper to maintain.  So, Mike, that leads us right back to tweaking the original design.   Guess we should have hired the right guys the first time around.

[Mike_Young]

Dave,
I think what you mention is often the case.  Would never say you hired the wrong guys.  Just a lot of different ways to do things out there....hope all is well.
Mike

[Dave McCollum]

Mike, to be honest, I never thought about this idea.  Makes perfect sense to me.  Got my Super thinking as well, which is my job.  For better or worse, we have to think about sustainability, making a buck.  Before my involvement in golf and for some years after, I accepted a bunch of clichés and conventional thinking about “the way it’s done.”  I suppose the guys that designed this place can’t be faulted for doing the same.  My father built this course.  To his credit (and being a thrifty Razorback), he hired a rookie, twenty-something, and gave him the chance to design his first course.  Back then what it costs to maintain wasn’t as critical as today and still remain affordable.  It may not be so for some top-tier joints today, but, in my view after my years listening to knowledgeable guys like you, I think it is an essential part of the trade.  Aesthetics are important, sure, but so are maintenance costs (and everything else). 

I’m still kicking, although noting my geezer status daily.  Thanks for asking.

[Paul Jones]

Hawks Ridge has bent grass tee boxes which are nicer than the greens on the majority of courses in/around Atlanta.

They even put a cup on the tee box on some of the Par 3 just in case you have to wait, you can practice your putting.

[Jon Wiggett]

Hawks Ridge has bent grass tee boxes which are nicer than the greens on the majority of courses in/around Atlanta.

They even put a cup on the tee box on some of the Par 3 just in case you have to wait, you can practice your putting.

Paul,

how does that actually improve the tee shot if at all?  If anything, I could imagine that it would be less stable underfoot.

Jon

[Paul Jones]

Hawks Ridge has bent grass tee boxes which are nicer than the greens on the majority of courses in/around Atlanta.

They even put a cup on the tee box on some of the Par 3 just in case you have to wait, you can practice your putting.

Paul,

how does that actually improve the tee shot if at all?  If anything, I could imagine that it would be less stable underfoot.

Jon

Jon,
I have played HR quite a few times and never had any stability issues when teeing off.  I just remember thinking how much money they were spending for that feature.  With that said, I had a couple of childhood friends come up to visit and I took them to play HR and the other nice courses around - the feature that stuck out the most for them were the tee boxes at HR.

[Jon Wiggett]

Paul,

thanks for the answer. I just cannot imagine having as good a footing if I was teeing off on a green. I must try that next time I play Dornoch or Nairn but then again maybe not, it might get me banned. I can imagine green standard tees would be a talking point in any group.

Jon

[Ryan Coles]

Give mats a few years before you judge their quality. Me?  I hate mats because they force one to play a sweeping shot...hence the reason they are used on par 3s very often.  If they aren't brushed out quite often clubs get stuck in the nap and make it far easier to hit balls fat.  Give me real grass any day of the week and I don't mind if it is fairway height. 


Ciao

I agree. The useable quality of life of mats is limited and clubs replace them only when well past their sell by date. The ability to take a tee peg is the first to go.

Burnham put in a very nice artificial tee line in on the practice ground one winter. Was the best artificial surface I've hit from. The following winter it was shot.

Some have to use mats in winter. I think in summer with the grass growing it is pretty indefensible.

[Thomas Dai]

Cricket now uses 'drop-in' grass pitches - not the whole playing area including the outfield, just the pitches - where the pitch is grown offsite within a pre-fabricated frame and then the complete unit is transported and installed on site.

A drop-in grass tee wouldn't necessarily need to be the size of a cricket pitch, indeed it could be 'grown' in several smaller sections and then joined together in whatever shape is deemed necessary.

Would something similar to a drop-in cricket pitch be suitable as golf course tees or would they likely be to complicated, or costly or to much hassle in transport/installation, removal/re-installation etc?


Atb

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